Re: [问题]为何基督教对同志那样反感?其他宗教不会

楼主: longnprosper   2016-10-31 07:55:01
先声明以下内文是个人立场非任何教会立场
并且标题不真 据我读过Dalai Lama也数次在公开访问说同性婚姻是"misconduct"
并且我不打算在PTT"战" 我的时间紧迫要赶着读数学和哲学
(Reddit上有r/DebateReligion聚集至少美加英各国骁勇善战人士)
论述"same-sex marriage is sinful/unjustifiable/unethical/immoral"
的基督徒有至少一个如下基本假设
"the state of the world is not the best of all possible states of the world
since there is orientation of same-sex marriage"
"the world could be brought about into a better state in which there is no
orientation of same-sex marriage"
然而哲学家曾论证过
基督徒Leibniz的原句: "this world is the best of all possible worlds"
用我的话说的版本: "this state of the world is the best of all possible
states of the world"
论证出处与用我的话说的论证细节如下
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/#Opt
1. God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnibenevolent and the free creator of
the world (Definition)
2. The world could have possibly been brought about into other states (i.e.
there are other possible states of the world) (Premise)
3. Suppose this state of the world is not the best of all possible states of
the world (i.e."The world could be brought about into a better state")
4. If this world is not in the best of all possible states of the world, then
at least one of the following must be the case:
* God was not powerful enough to bring about a better state of the world;
* God did not know how the state of this world will develop after his
creation (i.e. God lacked foreknowledge);
* God did not wish this world to be in the best state;
* God did not create the world;
* there were no other possible states of the world from which God could
choose to bring about
5. But any one or more of the disjuncts of (4) contradicts (1) or (2)
6. Therefore this state of the world is the best of all possible state of the
world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds
1. God knows infinitely many possible states of the universe
2. Only one of these states of the universe can actually exist
3. God has reason to choose one among all possible states of the universe
4. God is good
5. Therefore the state of the universe that God chose to exist is the best of
all possible states of the universe
所以也许基督徒"放下对同性婚姻的(负面)成见"不必默认"存在即无误"
只要接受如上基督徒Leibniz的论证即可有充足立场
Edit1:
我的想法用中文表达:
这个世界,是全知全善全能的神所塑造,虽然同性婚姻倾向存在,并且同性婚姻倾向是
sinful/unjustifiable的;但根据基督徒莱布尼兹的论证-主要想法就是不接受神的塑造
与全知全善全能矛盾:这个世界是所有神能够塑造的世界中最好的。这论证否定了同性婚
姻倾向不存在的世界会更好。
不过我直觉也不觉得这想法无懈可击,莱布尼兹在他的伦理学可能有别的想法(我没读那
么多),批判是欢迎的。
作者: neohippie (米国圣光肥鲁八嘎囧)   2016-10-31 08:39:00
结论最后一句看不懂best of all possible state = as God sees fitit does not exclude the existence of evil or sinor sufferingit does not exclude the possibility ofhomosexualityand it does not exclude the command of evangelismto evangelize is NOT to say that this world is notthe best. And it is NOT to say that we are tryingto "better" the best state (which makes no sense)What we do, is simply part of that chosen state简单来说,我不同意你上面给的基督徒两项假设两项假设应该都不是基督徒的主张(没有要战的意思,纯粹讨论。欢迎回应)
作者: kalestorm (没心情)   2016-10-31 12:00:00
达赖说的是口交, 肛交, “手淫”, 同性性交, 他依据的是藏传僧侣的著作. 顺便说依照那些论著 嫖妓有付钱不犯戒. 达赖本人则支持同性婚姻, 认为那是人权对了, 我记得依同本论著, 月经或怀孕期间性交也是犯戒抱歉,记错,达赖是说同性婚姻是个人事务, 由政府决定要不要通过
作者: GSXSP (Gloria)   2016-10-31 16:12:00
你的这个argument不限于同性婚姻, 所以若你的结论是leave as is, 那所有罪我们都不必关心了. 神在有自由意志的前提下造出最好的世界, 世界因自由意志而不断改变(在任何时间点都是那时间可能的最好的状况), 并且神介入护理世界运行,按著神的救赎计画, 使得按自由意志选择神的道路的人, 得以与祂同享永恒的荣耀.
作者: neohippie (米国圣光肥鲁八嘎囧)   2016-10-31 21:37:00
所以你的结论是基督徒应该接受同性婚姻,因为同性婚姻是最好世界的一部分。是这样吗?
作者: Jeby171 (你好吗)   2016-11-02 04:53:00
圣经是这世界最差的一部分 完全是虚构出来的杀人魔小说
作者: windseeker (windseeker)   2016-11-02 19:55:00
楼上大可不必来这里发废文

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