我不太熟,所以看看wiki,找到很多疑点,
希望能指点一下你说法来源,
或者这个论述是你的独创看法。
※ 引述《plamc (普兰可)》之铭言:
: 我说盐湖兄你这是搞政治正确,扯这扯不完
: 这边是历史群组,你要回归历史去看前因后果,当初为何南京条约要有领事裁判权?
: 那是因为最初开打的原因
开打的主要原因是自由贸易政策被挑战。
英商的生命没有被威胁,顶多是财产被威胁。
: 就是因为林则徐无缘无故就要封锁十三行威胁所有洋人生命财产安全,才惹火义律
: (前文说过,义律本来认为鸦片走私贩是大英之耻懒得理他们)
: 接下来林则徐要英走私商具结再也不走私鸦片,否则抓到就要就地正法
: 这对古中国来说是很正常,随时要杀谁就杀谁,但听在英国人耳中当然不能接受
: 今天要是有国家有这种离谱的做法,欧美国家有公民因此要被砍,也一定会想办法救援
: 快转到最后,啊仗打完了你都输了,当然要解决这个问题
确定是"就地正法"吗?
而且这段重点是要对方先签下同意,而不是直接抓人吧。
就算套现代观念,违法走私被抓到判刑很离谱?
As a consequence, Lin demanded that all foreign merchants
and Qing officials sign a new bond promising not to deal in
opium under penalty of death.
The British government opposed their signing of the bond, feeling that it
violated the principle of free trade, but some merchants who did not trade in
opium (such as Olyphant & Co.) were willing to sign against Elliot's orders.
英国政府认为违反自由贸易,要求拒绝签。
没有进行鸦片贸易的商人,宁愿违反英国政府的命令,
表示愿意签。
: 要不你就司法改革到欧洲人觉得可接受司法公平的水准,但不可能做到那怎么办
: 只好先用治外法权了,这只是英国想要国民生命有基本的保障,
: 根本不是英国人耍强权心态故意要修辱满清好吗?
同意当时跟羞辱无关,
但可能也没有所谓的,对司法公平的要求。
而是单纯的保护/给便利。
那种优越的比较,可能是另外形成的。
Grants of extraterritoriality were regular in China. In the 1830s, when the
Qing government concluded a treaty with the Uzbek khanate of Khoqand, it
granted extraterritorial privileges to its traders. And in dealing with
foreign merchants through the centuries, the Qing government rarely attempted
to impose jurisdiction based on territorial sovereignty, instead entrusting
the punishment of foreigners to the respective authority in practically all
cases except homicide.
At the negotiations of the Treaty of Nanjing, Qing negotiators readily
extended a grant of extraterritoriality. Cassel writes "the imperial
commissioner and Manchu nobleman Qiying readily conceded extraterritorial
privileges to the British in an exchange of notes with Pottinger [the British
plenipotentiary] at the time of the conclusion of the treaty".[19] This was
in line with Qing practices at the time, where sovereignty was held by
peoples rather than imposed on lands.[20]
: 其实当时满清一再撕毁条约,顽冥不灵,还没有因为毁约受到什么大惩罚
: 英国最后还好里好气的谈,已经是非常客气了
: 然后前面又说割让香港岛很羞辱,就跟你说不要老是要自己辱华,
: 对大清来说,当初根本也没打仗,就御赐蛮荒偏远不重要的澳门给葡萄牙人
: 给个香港对道光皇帝来说也是一样的程度而已,他自己根本就不觉得有啥关系
: 不只他,整个中国当年都不觉得有啥关系,所以才会后世抨击说怎么都不想改革
: 啊干根本就没事你改啥革啊,不要自己后世辱华,然后以今非古
: 当年全中国都不觉得有关系你说是羞辱?
象征性意义上不是没有关系的。
没打仗御赐,和打了以后奉上,心情就不一样。
问题只是在于,没有痛到能大改。
The Daoguang Emperor was infuriated that Qing territory would be given up in
a treaty that had been signed without his permission, and ordered Qishan
arrested
The Emperor was not informed the British expedition had not been defeated
and was very much intact. The imperial court continued to debate China's next
course of action for the war, as the Daoguang Emperor wanted Hong Kong retaken
: 对照一下,后来甲午割让台湾,那就闹出百日维新,孙文也从此想开始革命,
: 就知道那才是真的有羞辱到
: 英国拿香港也不是为了要占据领土,只是基于前述威胁十三行事件,打都打完了
: 要确保英商生命安全,所以要求一个基本根据地
你意思是说要一个军事根据地,方便下次"保护英商"时打仗吧。
: 香港岛当时根本是废岛,货真价实的鬼岛,是英国拿去以后变成东方明珠,赚死了
: “香港蕞尔一岛耳,固中国海滨之弃地也。丛莽恶石,盗所薮,兽所窟,和议既成,乃割
: 畀英。始辟草莱,招徕民庶,数年间遂成市落。”___王韬