首先，以下是很有意思的观念：
：所以基督和亚当的肉体才会相等
：基督道成肉身并不需要被造
基督和亚当的肉体才会【相等】+基督道成肉身并不需要被造
岂不是该等于：亚当的肉体不是被造吗？
若亚当的肉体被造，基督的肉体不被造，他们的肉体怎么可能【相等】呢？
若基督和亚当的肉体才会【相等】+亚当的肉体是被造的
岂不是该等于：基督的肉体不是被造吗？
那么，你的说法就被推翻了。
若是基督和亚当的肉体才会【相等】，只能有两个结果：
1- 根据你的标准：“基督道成肉身并不需要被造”，那么亚当的人性也成了非被造的，
满足了《尼西亚信经》所谓‘是圣父所生，而非圣父所造，与圣父同性同体’的标准。（
这正是你的逻辑）这是不可能，也是违法圣经的结果。
2-根据大公教会的标准：“亚当的肉体是被造的”，那么基督的肉体和亚当的肉体应该都
是被造的，否则没法【相等】。
很明显的，你的逻辑是有问题的。
看您动不动就祭出【捏斯托留】来批判正统基督论。我个人是蛮怀疑您是否【真的】读过
他的东西。附件是捏斯托留写给亚历山大主机区利罗的第二封信。您若能指出他在那里体
现出所谓的【捏斯托留主义异端】的思想，我会非常感激的。（我个人看不见任何类似‘
嗣子论’的痕迹。）
提醒您：现在的系统神学和教义史因为得到捏斯托留的著作原稿，已经为捏斯托留平反了
。所以，捏斯托留这四个字已经没有以往的威力。希望您别用。。。。还是善意的提醒。
最后，或许您仍然‘不知道’：古代安提阿教会的神学传统本身就是强调基督人性被造，
亚历山大则强调基督非首造的神性；这就导致在基督论上，安提阿产生了一个叫做Lucian
的殉道者，他强调基督的被造人性到一个地步，开始否定基督非受造的神性。他有一个得
意门徒，名字叫做“亚流”。（我就不介绍他是谁了。）而传统认为捏斯托留也是为了捍
卫基督为人到一个地步，把基督切割成两个不同的位格，产生类似嗣子论的说法。（当然
，这不是捏斯托留的思想。根据爱任纽，反而是诺斯低主义的观念。）所以，在您身上体
现出那种极端的亚历山大学派的特色，蛮令人惊讶的！
=============================================
NESTORIUS OF CONSTANTINOPLE, SECOND EPISTLE TO CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA
涅斯拖留致亚历山大的区利罗的第二封信
WRITTEN BY NESTORIUS OF CONSTANTINOPLE
康士坦丁堡的涅斯托流着
Nestorius sends greeting in the Lord to the most religious and reverend
fellow-minister Cyril. I pass over the insults against us contained in your
extraordinary letter. They will, I think, be cured by my patience and by the
answer which events will offer in the course of time. On one matter, however,
I cannot be silent, as silence would in that case be very dangerous. On that
point, therefore avoiding longwindedness as far as I can, I shall attempt a
brief discussion and try to be as free as possible from repelling obscurity
and undigestible prolixity. I shall begin from the wise utterances of your
reverence, setting them down word for word. What then are the words in which
your remarkable teaching finds expression ?
涅斯托流在主里问候最敬虔，和同为执事的区利罗。我忽视了在你那封极其突兀之信中对
我的侮辱。我认为，它们会被我的耐心，我持续不断的回答所化解。不论如何，我无法对
于其中的一件事情保持缄默。因为缄默会是的事态变得更为严峻。关于那点，我会尽量避
免喋喋不休，我也会尝试简要的讨论，并尽力避免任何的误解，或无法让人接受的废话。
我会以你智慧的话开始，一个字一个字的再写出来。然后看看你令人印象深刻的教训是怎
么说的？
"The holy and great synod states that the only begotten Son, begotten of God
the Father according to nature, true God from true God, the light from the
light, the one through whom the Father made all things, came down, became
incarnate, became man, suffered, rose."
神圣和伟大的大会宣告，神的独生子，根据其本质是从神生的，从真神而来的真神，从光
而来的光，父借由祂造了万有，祂也来到我们中间，道成肉身，成为人，受苦，并复活。
These are the words of your reverence and you may recognise them. Now listen
to what we say, which takes the form of a brotherly exhortation to piety of
the type of which the great apostle Paul gave an example in addressing his
beloved Timothy: "Attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to
teaching. For by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers". Tell
me, what does "attend" mean? By reading in a superficial way the tradition of
those holy men (you were guilty of a pardonable ignorance), you concluded
that they said that the Word who is coeternal with the Father was passible.
Please look more closely at their language and you will find out that that
divine choir of fathers never said that the consubstantial godhead was
capable of suffering, or that the whole being that was coeternal with the
Father was recently born, or that it rose again, seeing that it had itself
been the cause of resurrection of the destroyed temple. If you apply my words
as fraternal medicine, I shall set the words of the holy fathers before you
and shall free them from the slander against them and through them against
the holy scriptures.
这些是你值得尊敬的原话，你也应该认得它们。请以弟兄敬虔的互相劝解之方式，聆听我
们将讲说的，就是伟大的使徒保罗给他所爱的提摩太所立的榜样：“出席公开的读经（聚
集），要传道，要较大。因为，这样做能够拯救你自己，和你的听众”。告诉我，这里的
‘出席’是什么意思？借由根据那些圣人（你因着这个可以原谅的无知而显得有罪）肤浅
的传统念圣经，你结论并认为他们说那位与父同为永远的道是有感情的。请仔细的检视他
们的用语，你必然会发现教父们的神圣唱诗班绝不会宣称那个（与父）同质的神格（the
consubstantial godhead）会受苦，也不会宣称那位完全与父同为永远（coeternal）者
是最近才出生的，或祂再次复活，乃是看见它（神格）自己就是那个被拆毁之圣殿复活的
原因。若你愿意把我的话当作弟兄间的良药，我就能够把圣教父们的话摆在你的面前，免
得他们被毁谤，并借由那些毁谤来反对圣经。
"I believe", they say, "also in our Lord Jesus Christ, his only begotten
Son". See how they first lay as foundations "Lord" and "Jesus" and "Christ"
and "only begotten" and "Son", the names which belong jointly to the divinity
and humanity. Then they build on that foundation the tradition of the
incarnation and resurrection and passion. In this way, by prefixing the names
which are common to each nature, they intend to avoid separating expressions
applicable to sonship and lordship and at the same time escape the danger of
destroying the distinctive character of the natures by absorbing them into
the one title of "Son". In this Paul was their teacher who, when he remembers
the divine becoming man and then wishes to introduce the suffering, first
mentions "Christ", which, as I have just said, is the common name of both
natures and then adds an expression which is appropriate to both of the
natures. For what does he say? "Have this mind among yourselves, which is
yours in Christ Jesus who though he was in the form of God, did not count
equality with God a thing to be grasped", and so on until, "he became
obedient unto death, even death on a cross". For when he was about to mention
the death, to prevent anyone supposing that God the Word suffered, he says
"Christ", which is a title that expresses in one person both the impassible
and the passible natures, in order that Christ might be called without
impropriety both impassible and passible impassible in godhead, passible in
the nature of his body.
他们说，“我也相信在我们的的主耶稣基督里，祂的独生子。”请看他们如何先以‘主’
和‘耶稣’和‘基督’和‘独生’和‘子’打下根基，这些称号属于那联为一体的神性和
人性。然后他们在这个基础上建立了道成肉身，复活和受苦的传统。这样加上这么多与各
性质共有的名称，他们想要避免将子（sonship）和主（lordship）分开来讲。在同时，
又要避免将两个性质吸收入“子”的称号内，而摧毁了两性的不同特征。在这里面，保罗
也是他们的老师，当他想起神成为人，然后想要介绍祂的受苦，就先提“基督”，就是我
刚刚说过的，是两性质共有的名称，然后在加上符合两性质的描述。他说的是什么？“你
们要有这样的想法，就是你们在基督耶稣里的想法，他本有神的形像，不以自己与神同等
为强夺的”，一直说到，“存心顺服，以至于死，且死在十字架上。”因为当他要描述受
死的时候，为了避免任何人认为道神受苦，他说“基督”，就是用来描述那在一个位格中
无痛苦和有痛苦之双重本性的称号，好叫基督不会被错误的称作，在神格中同时是无痛苦
，又是有痛苦的无痛苦，和在祂身体的性质中有痛苦的。
I could say much on this subject and first of all that those holy fathers,
when they discuss the economy, speak not of the generation but of the Son
becoming man. But I recall the promise of brevity that I made at the
beginning and that both restrains my discourse and moves me on to the second
subject of your reverence. In that I applaud your division of natures into
manhood and godhead and their conjunction in one person. I also applaud your
statement that God the Word needed no second generation from a woman, and
your confession that the godhead is incapable of suffering. Such statements
are truly orthodox and equally opposed to the evil opinions of all heretics
about the Lord's natures. If the remainder was an attempt to introduce some
hidden and incomprehensible wisdom to the ears of the readers, it is for your
sharpness to decide. In my view these subsequent views seemed to subvert what
came first. They suggested that he who had at the beginning been proclaimed
as impassible and incapable of a second generation had somehow become capable
of suffering and freshly created, as though what belonged to God the Word by
nature had been destroyed by his conjunction with his temple or as though
people considered it not enough that the sinless temple, which is inseparable
from the divine nature, should have endured birth and death for sinners, or
finally as though the Lord's voice was not deserving of credence when it
cried out to the Jews: "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it
up. He did not say, "Destroy my godhead and in three days it will be raised
up."
在这个题目上，我能够先指出，所有那些圣教父在研讨经纶的时候，并不在讲论出生，而
是子的成为人。但是我记得我一开始就做出的大胆，限制我的论点，并把我引向第二个你
提到的题目之承诺。在其中我非常赞同你把（基督的）本性分为人性和神性，和它们在一
个位格中的联合。我也非常赞同你所说的，道神不需要从女人取得第二个出生，以及你承
认的，神格无法受苦。那样的声明乃是真正正统的，也能够对抗针对主之双重本性的所有
异端。若剩
下的人想要将任何隐藏和无法理解的智慧引入听众的耳朵，您的敏锐立刻就能够察觉。从
我的教导，接下来的这些观点，看起来可能会挑战前述的观点。它们建议，那位在太初就
被宣告为无感觉和不能再次出生的那位，以某种方式成为能够受苦，并在肉身被造的，而
性质属于道神的因着祂与祂的殿的联合被摧毁，或有人认为这对于那个无罪的殿仍然是不
够的，或至终，使得主的声音在向犹太人呼喊：“你们拆毁这殿，我要在三日内把它重建
起来”，而不
是“摧毁我的神格，我要在三日内把它重建起来”的时候，显得毫无分量。
Again I should like to expand on this but am restrained by the memory of my
promise. I must speak therefore but with brevity. Holy scripture, wherever it
recalls the Lord's economy, speaks of the birth and suffering not of the
godhead but of the humanity of Christ, so that the holy virgin is more
accurately termed mother of Christ than mother of God. Hear these words that
the gospels proclaim: "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, son of
David, son of Abraham." It is clear that God the Word was not the son of
David. Listen to another witness if you will: "Jacob begat Joseph, the
husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called the Christ. " Consider
a further piece of evidence: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in
this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, she was found to
be with child of the holy Spirit." But who would ever consider that the
godhead of the only begotten was a creature of the Spirit? Why do we need to
mention: "the mother of Jesus was there"? And again what of: "with Mary the
mother of Jesus"; or "that which is conceived in her is of the holy Spirit";
and "Take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt"; and "concerning his
Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh"? Again,
scripture says when speaking of his passion: "God sending his own Son in the
likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh"; and
again "Christ died for our sins" and "Christ having suffered in the flesh";
and "This is", not "my godhead", but "my body, broken for you".
我要在对我的应许的记忆之限制下，再跟您展开这个题目。我必须放胆诉说。当圣经提到
主的经纶的时候，它提及并不是其神格出生和受苦，而是基督的人性，好叫圣童女能够正
正确的被称为基督的母亲，而不是神的母亲。请听这些福音书所宣告的话：“耶稣基督的
家谱，大卫的子孙，亚伯拉罕的后裔。”非常清楚的，道神并不是大卫的自杀。若你愿意
，请听另一处见证：“雅各生约瑟，马里亚的丈夫，耶稣，又成为基督的那位，从她而生
。”我们在思考另一个证据：“耶稣基督降生的事记在下面：他母亲马利亚已经许配了约
瑟，还没有迎娶，马利亚就从圣灵怀了孕。”谁能够把独生子的神格当作圣灵的创造物呢
？为什么我们非得说：“耶稣的母亲在那里”？又，什么是：“马里亚耶稣的母亲；”或
“从圣灵怀了孕；”以及，“带着婴儿和他的母亲逃到埃及去；”和，“论到祂的儿子，
根据肉身乃是从大卫的后裔生的”？圣经在论到他的受苦时又说：“神为了罪的缘故，在
罪之肉体的样式中差了祂自己的儿子，祂在肉体中定罪了罪；”还说，“基督为我们的罪
行而死”和“基督在肉体中受苦；”还有，“这，”不是“我的神格，”而是“我的身体
，为你们裂开。”
Ten thousand other expressions witness to the human race that they should not
think that it was the godhead of the Son that was recently killed but the
flesh which was joined to the nature of the godhead. (Hence also Christ calls
himself the lord and son of David: " 'What do you think of the Christ ? Whose
son is he ?' They said to him, 'The son of David.' Jesus answered and said to
them, 'How is it then that David inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord,
saying, "The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand"?'". He said this as
being indeed son of David according to the flesh, but his Lord according to
his godhead.) The body therefore is the temple of the deity of the Son, a
temple which is united to it in a high and divine conjunction, so that the
divine nature accepts what belongs to the body as its own. Such a confession
is noble and worthy of the gospel traditions. But to use the expression
"accept as its own" as a way of diminishing the properties of the conjoined
flesh, birth, suffering and entombment, is a mark of those whose minds are
led astray, my brother, by Greek thinking or are sick with the lunacy of
Apollinarius and Arius or the other heresies or rather something more serious
than these. For it is necessary for such as are attracted by the name
"propriety" to make God the Word share, because of this same propriety, in
being fed on milk, in gradual growth, in terror at the time of his passion
and in need of angelical assistance. I make no mention of circumcision and
sacrifice and sweat and hunger, which all belong to the flesh and are
adorable as having taken place for our sake. But it would be false to apply
such ideas to the deity and would involve us in just accusation because of
our calumny.
上万的类似经文都向人类见证，它们并不认为子的神格在近日被杀，而是那个与神格本性
联合的肉身被杀。（故此基督也称自己为主和大卫的子孙：“你们认为基督是谁？祂是谁
的儿子？”他们告诉祂，“大卫的儿子。”耶稣回答说，“那么大卫被圣灵感动，为什么
称祂为主，说‘主告诉我的主，坐在我的右手边？’”他这样说那是因为根据肉身，祂乃
是大卫的子孙，根据祂的神格，祂乃是他的主。）故此身体乃是子之神格的殿宇，耶稣在
一个崇高和神圣的联合中与它（子的神格）联合为一，好叫神学接受了属于身体的一切，
并把它当作自己的（身体）。这样的信仰是高贵并符合福音的传统。但是使用‘把它当作
自己的（accept as its own）’这样的说，作为减损被联合的肉身，出生，受苦和埋葬
，乃是那些心思错乱之人的标记，我的弟兄，这乃是因着希腊人的思维，或被亚波里拿流
及亚流，或其他异端的蠢笨所感染，或根本就是更为严重的病症。那些被‘属性’这个词
所吸引的人，都认为必须用这个词，因为这个属性在我们的成长中借由（话）奶喂给我们
，并在他受苦需要天使的帮助之恐怖的时候，道神才能够被分享。我不必再提及（以自己
为）献祭和流汗、饥饿等属于肉身并因为了我们的缘故取了那个位置等等的例子。但是，
把这样的观点用在神性上，和因着只为著控告我们而针对我们的毁谤上，都是虚假错误的
。
These are the traditions of the holy fathers. These are the precepts of the
holy scriptures. In this way does someone write in a godly way about the
divine mercy and power, "Practise these duties, devote yourself to them, so
that all may see your progress. This is what Paul says to all. The care you
take in labouring for those who have been scandalised is well taken and we
are grateful to you both for the thought you devote to things divine and for
the concern you have even for those who live here. But you should realise
that you have been misled either by some here who have been deposed by the
holy synod for Manichaeism or by clergy of your own persuasion. In fact the
church daily progresses here and through the grace of Christ there is such an
increase among the people that those who behold it cry out with the words of
the prophet, "The earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the
water covers the sea". As for our sovereigns, they are in great joy as the
light of doctrine is spread abroad and, to be brief, because of the state of
all the heresies that fight against God and of the orthodoxy of the church,
one might find that verse fulfilled "The house of Saul grew weaker and weaker
and the house of David grew stronger and stronger".
这乃是圣教父们的传统。耶稣圣经的戒律。这样人才会以圣洁的方式撰写神的恩典和能力
，“要尽那些责任，全身投入与其中，叫你们可以看见你们的长进。”这是保罗对众人所
说的话。你为了拯救那些被毁谤中伤的努力是被众人所赞许的，我们也为着你花在这些神
圣事物上的心思和你为了那些住在此处之人的顾虑感谢你。但是，你必须了解，你乃是别
某些因为摩尼教主义的缘故，被教会驱逐的人，或你自己所说服的神职人员所误导。事实
上，这里每日的教会活动，借由基督的恩典，在人群中显现出喜人的增长，让人看见了就
会用先知的话，喊出，“全地都会被对主的认识所充满，就像水充满了海洋一样。”对于
我们的治理，他们都是非常的喜乐，就像光明的教义散射到外邦，简单的说，因着所有抵
挡神之异端的势态，和教会的正统性，“扫罗的家越来越衰微，大卫的家越来越坚强！”
This is our advice from a brother to a brother. "If anyone is disposed to be
contentious", Paul will cry out through us to such a one, "we recognize no
other practice, neither do the churches of God". I and those with me greet
all the brotherhood with you in Christ. May you remain strong and continue
praying for us, most honoured and reverent lord.
这是我们以弟兄对弟兄的建议，“若有人因好争论而被驱逐，”保罗会借由我们喊出，“
我们不知道有别的实行，神的众教会也不知道。”我和那些与我在一起的，在基督中问候
您，我们的弟兄。希望你刚强，并不断的为我们祷告，我们最尊贵和敬虔的主。