※ 引述《hesenberg (2030美食家 )》之铭言：
: ※ 引述《fw190a (las)》之铭言：
实际谈话内容出至北约秘书长Jens Stoltenberg和芬兰总统Sauli Niinnisto
6月12号的讲话内容，以下附上原始连结和翻译节录
https://reurl.cc/e3Ad3K
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_196300.htm?selectedLocale=en
JENS STOLTENBERG: So first to the question of whether peace is possible. Yes,
peace is possible.The question is what kind of peace? Because if Ukraine
withdraw its forces and stop fighting, then Ukraine will cease to exist as an
independent, sovereign nation in Europe. If President Putin stops fighting,
then we’ll have peace.
史托腾伯格：首先对于“和平是否是有可能的”？当然，和平是有可能达成的。问题
是，我们说的是哪一种和平？如果乌克兰撤回他们的部队, 并且停止战斗，(那我们就
能达成和平)，但乌克兰就再也无法作为一个主权独立的欧洲国家。或是如果俄罗斯
总统普丁停止战争，那我们也能迎来和平。
So the dilemma is, of course, that peace is always possible. Surrender can
provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don’t accept peace
at any price. They are actually willing to pay a very high price for their
independence. And again, Finland is a country that really knows the price for
peace and also the price for independence and being a sovereign nation.
史托腾伯格：所以我们的困境是，要达成和平当然总是可能的，投降能带来和平。但是我
们已经看到，乌克兰不会妥协于这种和平。实际上，乌克兰人有意愿为了他们的独立付出
高昂代价。同样地，芬兰是一个确实知道和平和主权独立价值的国家。
(注:芬兰在二战后，与俄罗斯在领土问题上发生过严重的冲突)
And it’s not for me to judge how high price the Ukrainians should be willing
to pay. I mean, we pay a price because we provide support, we see the economic
effects of the economic sanctions. But there is no doubt, as you said Sauli,
that the highest price is paid by Ukrainians every day. And therefore it’s for
them to judge, not for me, what is the price they are willing to pay, for peace
and for independence?
史托腾伯格：我不去替乌克兰人判断(为主权独立)付出多少代价是适当的。我的意思是，
北约因为提供支援、金融制裁受到一些经济上的影响，但是就像Sauli你说的一样，乌克兰
人才是为这场战争付出最沈重代价的人。因此，不应该由北约，而该由乌克兰人自己去判
断为了主权独立和和平愿意付出多少代价。
(中略)
is that as President Zelensky has stated many times, this war will end at the
negotiating table. The question is what kind of position will the Ukrainians
have when they negotiate a solution? Our responsibility is to make that
position as strong as possible. We know that there is a very close link between what you can achieve at the negotiating table and your position at the
battlefield. So our military support to them is a way to strengthen their hand
at the negotiating table when they, hopefully soon, will sit there and
negotiate the peace agreement.
史托腾伯格：就像乌克兰总统泽伦斯基多次强调得，这场战争将在谈判桌上结束。问题是
乌克兰人在谈判桌协商时会处于什么样的立场? 北约的责任是让乌克兰人能尽量站在优势
的立场上协商。战场情况和乌克兰能在谈判桌能达成的成果有非常紧密的连结，因此北约
的军事援助将能带给乌克兰人在谈判桌上关键的帮助。希望我们能尽快坐下开始协商和平
协议。
So that was ‘peace is possible’ – that’s not the question anyway, the
question is: what price are you willing to pay for peace? How much territory?
How much independence? How much sovereignty? How much freedom? How much
democracy are you willing to sacrifice for peace? And that’s a very difficult
moral dilemma. And it’s for those who are paying the highest price to make
that judgement. Our responsibility is to support them.
史托腾伯格：这是关于“和平是否可能”的部分，这件事没有什么好怀疑的，问题是：你
愿意为了和平牺牲多少代价？多少领土？多少独立性？多少主权？多少自由？多少民主？
这是一个困难的道德难题，只该由目前承担最沈重代价的人做出判断，而北约的责任是去
支持他们的选择。
(后略)