这位拍过 ID4 风靡全球但拍 ID4 2 又被批评向中国靠拢的导演，明天他新片就要上映了。他身为个大制作商业片导演，这几天也被问到了关于超英电影的问题，他也没有避谈而也喂了很多新闻给媒体。不过我今天才看到一篇上个月的 Collider 访谈，里面从他童年谈起、谈到电影生涯、谈到每个阶段的大片历程、谈到他的政治生态平权等理想与电影实践、继续谈到今年这部《决战中途岛》... 也很有趣的是他在访谈中仿佛耿耿于怀地提到了几次 "superhero"这回事。以下翻译一下，还请大家瞧瞧：
新闻网址：https://collider.com/roland-emmerich-interview-midway-career/
新闻标题：
Roland Emmerich Talks 'Midway', His Lowkey Politics & Being Known as the "Master of Disaster"
罗兰艾莫瑞奇谈《决战中途岛》、谈他低调的政治倾向、谈他“灾难大师”的名声
by Helen Barlow, Octorber 9, 2019
German-born filmmaker Roland Emmerich is sometimes referred to as “the master of disaster,” after directing a string of blockbuster disaster films like Independence Day, Godzilla, and The Day After Tomorrow, a global warming horror film released in 2004. The affable 63-year-old received a career tribute at The Zurich Film Festival, where The Day After Tomorrow was screened alongside several new films with a strong environmental message, including the Antarctic documentary Sanctuary, featuring Javier
Bardem, and Watson, a film about eco-warrior Paul Watson directed by An Inconvenient Truth producer Lesley Chilcott.
德国导演罗兰艾莫瑞奇常被称为“灾难大师”，在他拍过《ID4 星际终结者》《酷斯拉》与 2004 全球暖化片《明天过后》等灾难大片后。这位 63 岁亲切大叔的电影生涯刚得到苏黎世电影节的小致敬：他们将《明天过后》与许多环境议题新片一起放映，包括哈维尔巴登参与的南极纪录片 "Sanctuary"，以及关于生态战士 Paul Watson 的 "Watson"，由《不愿面对的真相》制作人 Lesley Chilcott 执导。
Meanwhile, Emmerich’s new film, the World War II action-drama Midway, releases in November. It’s a familiar offer from Emmerich, featuring big-budget effects and an ensemble cast including Ed Skrein, Patrick Wilson, Luke Evans, Aaron Eckhart, and Nick Jonas. The film, about the American sailors and aviators who helped bring about the turning point in the war at the Battle of Midway, looks set to be a success story in the vein of The Patriot, Emmerich’s highly-praised 2000 Civil War drama starring Mel
Gibson. Midway is mostly being kept under wraps, but Emmerich was happy to discuss how long it had been in the works. He also didn’t hold back on his battles with Hollywood and the serendipity that made his blockbusters a success.
同时，艾莫瑞奇的二战新片《决战中途岛》十一月要上映了。这片是很寻常的艾莫瑞奇片，有大预算特效，还有一群明星卡司包括 Ed Skrein, Patrick Wilson, Luke Evans, Aaron Eckhart 与 Nick Jonas 。关于一群在在“中途岛海战”帮助二战局势扭转乾坤的美国水手和飞行员，此片有 2000 艾莫瑞奇与梅尔吉勃逊合作的美国内战片《决战时刻》那种众志成城故事的况味。《决战中途岛》电影内容尚不透露，但艾莫瑞奇乐于谈谈拍这片如何一路走来。他也不吝谈谈他与好莱坞的争战，以及什么机缘巧合使他这部大片成功拍完。
An openly gay supporter of LGBTQ rights, Emmerich directed the 2015 movie Stonewall, about the 1969 Stonewall riots and the gay liberation movement. The drama showcases Emmerich’s for making smaller independent films as well as popcorn-fuelled blockbusters.
身为一个大声支持 LGBTQ平权的出柜同志，艾莫瑞奇 2015 年也执导了关于 1969 年石墙暴动的《石墙风暴》，此片也让大家看见拍爆米花大片外艾莫瑞奇也是会拍小成本独立片。
COLLIDER: Your father was a successful businessman making garden machinery in a small town outside of Stuttgart.
COLLIDER：你爸是个成功商人，在司徒特加近郊小镇制造园艺机械？
ROLAND EMMERICH: Early on I decided not to enter the family business and luckily I had two older brothers who were inclined to take over the company. So I got out of there really fast together with my sister.
罗兰艾莫瑞奇：我很早就决定不参加家族事业，很幸运地我的两个哥哥都倾向加入家族公司。于是我和我妹很快就顺利离家了。
You were more artistically inclined.
你比较倾向艺术？
EMMERICH: I was always interested in painting, architecture and literature. When other kids were playing outside I was always reading a book. My mum would say to go out and get some fresh air and I’d say, “No, not today, maybe tomorrow”.
艾莫瑞奇：我一直对绘画、建筑、雕塑有兴趣。当其他孩子在外面玩时我总是在看书，我妈总叫我一起出去呼吸新鲜空气，我总是说“今天不要，明天罢”。
You were accepted to the Munich film school and initially wanted to be a production designer. Then you saw a movie that made you change your idea of what you could do with your life.
你进入慕尼黑电影学校、起初想当个制作设计师，然后看了某部电影后改变了志向？
EMMERICH: I’d already been accepted to film school when I visited a friend studying fashion in Paris, and I was walking along the Champs Elysees and I saw a billboard for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I watched the English version and from that moment something changed in me. I wasn’t immediately saying I wanted to direct, but I wanted to be involved in movies like that. I was afraid of becoming a director because I had no idea how to do that, but I knew a little about the visual side.
艾莫瑞奇：我在录取后有去巴黎拜访一位学时尚的朋友，我走在香榭丽舍大道上抬头看到了《第三类接触》的看板，我看了该片英语版后心理某个点被打开了。我并没马上说“我想导演”，我只觉得我想参与像这样的电影。当时我对当导演还怕怕的，因为我不知导演该怎么做，但我对视觉方面还算略懂。
What was it about the film?
这部片在谈什么？
EMMERICH: It was about very ordinary people. One is an electrician, one is a mother with a child and they are faced with something incredible, aliens coming to earth. This electrician ends up being one of the guys who goes up there with them.
艾莫瑞奇：他关于一群很普通的人们，包括一位电子技工、以及一个带孩子的妈妈，他们遇上了难以置信的事情：外星人降临地球！那位技工甚至跟着其他人们被外星人带了上去。
A lot of your movies can be seen in a kind of Spielberg-ian style.
你很多片都可以看作是带着某种“史匹柏风格”？
EMMERICH: Exactly. Pretty much my movies are about normal people facing incredible circumstances.
艾莫瑞奇：确实如此。我很大部分的电影都关于普通人们面对不可思议的情境。
Your first film in film school was The Noah’s Ark Principle, which was crazily ambitious and shows how far you can go with virtually nothing.
你在电影学校第一片是《诺亚方舟原则》Das Arche Noah Prinzip，疯狂地雄心壮志，展现了你在一无所有下可以玩多大？
EMMERICH: I don’t want to watch it anymore! (Chuckles) I was with a group of students but they wanted to do something smaller and dropped out. I really only wanted to do the production design and I ended up being the director. In the beginning, the budget was 500,000 Deutsch Marks and we ended up spending 900,000 Marks and nearly bankrupted the film school. My father, who was better at business, enabled the film school to give us more funding, and he gave us 70,000 Marks for visual effects.
艾莫瑞奇：喔这不堪回首（耸肩）！我本来和一群同学合制，但他们想做小一点的片而退出了。其实我只是想做制作设计，结果最后我变成了导演。最初电影预算是五十万德国马克，最后我们花了九十万、几乎把电影学校拖到破产。我那比我们都懂商业的老爸，促成学校赞助我们更多，也自掏腰包给我七万马克做视觉特效。
You started your company Centropolis with your sister Uta and made English-language films in Germany, Joey (Making Contact), Hollywood Monster (Ghost Chase) and Moon 44. How were they received?
你和你妹Ute 创了电影公司 Centropolis，在德国制作了（译者暂译）《乔伊的接触》、《好莱坞怪兽》、《44号月球》等片，回响如何呢？
EMMERICH: The Noah’s Ark Principle was very well received, then the others not so much. People couldn’t understand someone making movies that look like American movies in Germany and the critics started trashing me more and more. Mario Kassar at Carolco wanted me to take over the reins of a Stallone movie budgeted at $65 million, so I went home to Stuttgart and said to my sister, “Pack up the office, we’re going to Hollywood.” They had lost Ridley Scott on the movie and he was one of my big heroes,
so that was great for me.
艾莫瑞奇：《诺亚方舟原则》很受欢迎，其他则平平。人们不懂怎么会有人在德国做些像美国一样的片，影评也加码砲轰。Carolco 制片公司的 Mario Kassar 那时想要我去接手一部六千五百万美元的史特龙片，我赶快回家告诉我妹“把公司打包、咱们要去好莱坞！”他们失去我心中的电影英雄雷利史考特、而要我接手？对我来说这太棒了。
Yet your first film was Universal Soldier and not the Stallone movie.
不过你第一部好莱坞片是《魔鬼命令》而不是那部史特龙片。
EMMERICH: It’s one of these typical stories about being a newcomer in Hollywood. I went to Cannes where James Cameron was there with T2 and everyone was asking, “Who is this Emmerich guy?” Joel Silver was the producer and I just didn’t get along with him. He always wanted to tell me how to make a movie, and I said I know how to make movies. I was good friends with a young actor from Moon 44, Dean Devlin, and asked him, “Can we write a script for this movie?” We gave it to Carolco and they said it
was so much better than they had. But Joel Silver refused to even read it and I knew I had to call it quits. I said to Mario, “This will cost $80 million and not be a good movie.” He was so impressed that he gave me a smaller movie.
艾莫瑞奇：那又是个典型的好莱坞新人故事。当时我去了坎城，那正上映詹姆斯柯麦隆的《魔鬼终结者 2》，而大家只在问“那个艾莫瑞奇又是谁？”我那片制片是 Joel Silver而我就是和他不太处得来，他总是想教我如何拍部片、但我总说我知道怎么拍部片。我和《44号月球》的年轻演员 Dean Devlin是好友，于是我问他“我们能给这片写个剧本吗？”我们写了交给 Carolco而他们觉得这比他们手上的好多了，但 Joel Silver连读都不愿读，我就知道该退出了。我告诉 Mario“这片会花八千万却不会是部好片”，他印象深刻，于是给了我另一部较小的片。
That movie, Universal Soldier, ended up a success.
而这部小片《魔鬼命令》最终大成功。
EMMERICH: Another director had to quit, as they couldn’t make it for $35 million and Mario asked me if I could do it for $20 million and I said we’d have to write a new screenplay. I always have to invent stories myself, at least the initial idea. The only time I signed on to an existing screenplay was The Patriot. Mario was cool and said it’s about genetically-enhanced soldiers and it stars Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren. I asked immediately, “Who is Jean-Claude Van Damme?” I rented all
his videos and I went, “Ooh” and my co-writer Dean Devlin said, “You cannot work with these people”. And I said I have a great idea – we kill them at the beginning and when they wake up they are automatically-controlled people. (Laughs)
艾莫瑞奇：另外一个导演得退出，因为他们无法拍用三千五百万拍，Mario 就问我能不能用两千万拍，我回答那我们得写个新剧本。我总要自己创造故事，至少要创作原初构想。我唯一一次给一部现成剧本电影当导演的片是《决战时刻》。Mario 同意了，告诉我这是部关于基因强化士兵的故事、要有尚克劳德范达美与杜夫朗格。于是我立刻问“谁是范达美”然后把范达美片全租回家看了，我惊呼“喔”而编剧搭挡 Dean Devlin只缓缓道“你没办法跟这些人工作的”。然后我想到了个好点子：我们开场就杀了他们、然后让他们一醒来就成为自动控制人（笑）。
You were playing to their acting style essentially.
你已经在玩他们的演技了。
EMMERICH: Exactly!
艾莫瑞奇：正是如此 XD
Then you started to make original movies like Stargate.
然后你开始拍原创电影如《星际奇兵》。
EMMERICH: I already had the idea for Stargate in film school.
艾莫瑞奇：早在电影学校时我就有《星际奇兵》的构想了。
Was it difficult to pitch and get accepted?
拿这片去提案等人接受，过程困难吗？
EMMERICH: It was super hard to do. I went to every studio and the only person who said he could develop it was Lorenzo di Bonaventura at Warners, and he eventually went on to produce Transformers. He was a really nice guy. I said, “I want to make this movie now.” We found a young French producer Mark Friedman who had just started a production company owned by Canal Plus who had a huge stake in Carolco. They said, “How much do you need?” I said $35 million and he said, “Let’s do it.” The movie was
made without American distribution and when we’d finished it and it had great visuals Mario screened a reel to everybody. I later learned he wanted to make an overall deal with MGM, so they got it, and at the time having your film at MGM was pretty much the death knell of your career. But we knew how to market it. Dean was very computer savvy. He created the first web page ever for a movie and that reached so many people. MGM marketed the movie for young boys, and in the end, 75% of our audience was
over 25. But it was very successful and was called a sleeper hit. It was the biggest October opening for 10 years or so, and that naturally brought a lot of interest.
艾莫瑞奇：超困难。我跑了每家制片厂，唯一说能发展此片的是华纳的Lorenzo di Bonaventura，而最后他还跑去制作《变形金刚》了。他是个好人，我要求“我想现在就拍这片”，我们就找了个法国的年轻制片 Mark Friedman，他才在 Canal+ 底下开了间制片公司，而 Canal+ 又在 Carolco有很多股权。他们问“你要多少预算”，我答三千五百万他就答应“那我们干吧”。这片制作没有美国发行商支持，我们得先完成它而它真有很棒的视效，Mario 拍了一小段给每家发行商看看。
后来我才知道他当时想全权交给米高梅，米高梅就得到了本片发行权，而在那年头让米高梅发行等于是你事业的丧钟。但我们自己知道如何行销这片，Dean很懂电脑，他写了个前所未见的电影网页而许多人真的都看到了。米高梅把此片行销给年轻男孩，结果 25 岁以上观众占 75%。结果这片很成功、成为当年大黑马，他保持 10 月档最佳首映票房纪录有差不多十年吧，这自然令大家对我们开始感兴趣。
Afterward, you made the film that launched your career – Independence Day, which you also wrote and produced. You got it going quickly and it became the template for how you would make movies.
接下来，你拍了你导演生涯代表作《ID4 星际终结者》，你还兼任编剧与制片。你很快就完成了它放送全球，而它也成为你未来会如何拍电影的参考模板？
EMMERICH: After Stargate I went to a new agent who had all the big writers like Shane Black and Joe Eszterhas. I always wanted to make big alien invasion movies but I first had to convince Dean and finally did. Then I learned from Lorenzo there was another movie called Mars Attacks! with Tim Burton, one of my favorite directors. I knew a bit about Mars Attacks! and every one said to give up. I said, “No let’s go to Mexico and lock ourselves in a room” and in three and a half weeks we wrote
Independence Day. My agent asked if I could put a number to it and we auctioned it like we auctioned my scripts, which had never been done before. We came in with a budget of $73 million and they offered $69.8 million. Then we went to the whole town wondering how we could release before Mars Attacks! which was scheduled for August. I said, “Let’s call it Independence Day, let’s have it take place on Independence Day and insist on the 4th July weekend”. That was our condition and every studio wanted
to make it and it ended up at Fox. Tim Burton was already shooting and we wrote, shot and finished it in 10 to 11 months.
艾莫瑞奇：在《星际奇兵》后我找了间新的经纪公司，他们有 Shane Black 和 Joe Eszterhas 等大牌编剧。我一直都很想拍部外星人入侵电影，但我得先说服 Dean 而我也终于说服了。然后我从 Lorenzo那听说同年还有另一部《星战毁灭者》来竞争，还由我最喜爱的导演之一提姆波顿执导。我对该片略知一二，大家都叫我放弃吧，我只说“不，咱们去墨西哥闭关一阵子”然后花三周半写完《ID4 星际终结者》剧本。经纪人问我能不能如同兜售我以前的剧本般兜售它（其实我也没兜售过我剧本）？我们提出七千三百万美元、对方提出六千九百八十万成交。
然后我们跑遍全城想着该怎么赶在八月上映的《星战毁灭者》之前先上映，我灵机一动“我们叫它《独立日》吧，我们让这剧情发生在独立纪念日、并坚持要排 7/4那周末档期上映。”那是我们的条件，每家片厂都买单，结果大众拿到了。那时提姆波顿早已开拍了，而我们赶在 10 到 11 个月之间火速完成了编剧、拍摄与后制。
The film became the fastest to reach $100 million in the US. It was a monster success globally. How did that change your life?
此片成为美国影史票房最快破亿的片，更得到全球超大成功。它如何改变你人生？
EMMERICH: I naturally got the biggest movie that everyone wanted to do which was Godzilla. I didn’t want to do it, but because I didn’t want to do it they went higher and higher with the salary and the backend got bigger and bigger. But I said I would not make Godzilla look like Godzilla. We made him look like a lizard and went with [an image of] this thing to Tokyo where the same company had Independence Day, which had been a sensation and they felt compelled to make my next movie. But when we
revealed it to them they said you make your American Godzilla and we’ll make our own Godzilla. I said, “Fine with me”. But I was a bit disappointed because I thought, “Shit, now I have to do this thing!”
艾莫瑞奇：我理所当然地拿到了当时人人抢着要的最大片《酷斯拉》。其实我不想拍它，但正因我不想拍，他们不停加码片酬与预算就是要我拍。可是我说我不会把《酷斯拉》拍得像个哥吉拉。我们把它拍得像只蜥蜴，带了一段样本去东京找当地发行《ID4 星际终结者》的片商，ID4 在日本大轰动因此他们跃跃欲试地拍我下一片。但当我们拿出样本时，他们只说你们拍你们的美国《酷斯拉》吧、我们拍我们的哥吉拉就好。我嘴上说“那好吧”但其实很失望，因为我想“糟糕了，这下我得自己做这片。”
Do you have any regrets about making Godzilla?
你对拍《酷斯拉》有任何后悔吗？
EMMERICH: A little bit. It did all right commercially, but I’ve always said monster films have a limit. Later Peter Jackson did King Kong and it roughly did the same money as Godzilla. Everyone said it would make the same money as Independence Day and I said, “No, it will make half the money” and that’s exactly what it did. Who would go to a Japanese monster movie? It’s a certain kind of audience and that was that.
艾莫瑞奇：有那么点。商业上它都很OK，但我一直说怪兽电影是有其限制的。后来彼得杰克森拍了《金刚》，也卖到和《酷斯拉》差不多票房。大家都说我这片能卖到《ID4 星际终结者》那么多，但我说“不，只会卖到 ID4一半”结果还真只卖到一半。谁会想看一部日本怪兽电影？那是一群特定的观众，也许也不少但就这样了。
Afterward, you made The Patriot, a very different American story.
接下来，你拍了《决战时刻》，是个非常不同的美国故事。
EMMERICH: I wanted to do Midway and at that time John Caillie had just been made chairman at Sony and he made this huge deal with Dean and me. I pitched Midway as this amazing story, “It’s perfect everything is there.” He said, “Oh my God, a great idea. Who do you want to write it?” I said William Goldman. He said, “I know him, I can call him.” He was at that time the biggest screenwriter in Hollywood, even if he lived in New York, and I ended sitting with Dean in his living room and told him that
he also wrote A Bridge Too Far and he immediately said, “Great, let’s do it.” Then I had bad news from John Caillie. “Can you make this movie for under $100 million?” I said, “No, its $120 or $130 million because of the visual effects. Nobody’s ever done something like that.” So he couldn’t greenlight the film for more than $90 million. I was super depressed, then Chris Lee, a friend running Tristar, said, “Don’t worry, I just got a great script in turnaround by the same guy who wrote Saving
Private Ryan (Robert Rodat) and that was The Patriot.
艾莫瑞奇：我那时就想拍《决战中途岛》了，但那时 John Caillie 刚执掌 Sony 而他跟我们签下了这个大片约。我为这片约提案了《决战中途岛》，他说“很完美地我们一切到位，天哪一个超棒的想法，你想要谁来编剧？”我说 William Goldman，他说“我认识他、就打给他”。这位是当时好莱坞最大牌的编剧，虽然他住在纽约，我和 Dean 就去他纽约客厅，还提及他编过《夺桥遗恨》，他马上答应“好极了，咱们来做！”
可是接下来 John Caillie 传来坏消息“你们能压到低于一亿吗？”我说“不行，必须1.2或1.3亿，为了那视觉特效，没人干过这样的。”但他无法放行此片超过九千万。我那时超沮丧，然后当时在三星的好友 Chris Lee告诉我“别灰心，我手上正在传着《抢救雷恩大兵》那位编剧 Robert Rodat 的新作品”，也就是《决战时刻》。
Were you worried about making a historical American story as a German?
身为德国人，你对拍一部美国历史片会感到不安吗？
EMMERICH: It was a fantastic script. When I signed on I was made to believe it was about Francis Marion so I read every book about him. In the script he had seven children, but in real life, he had one child. Then I realized it wouldn’t be about him and would be a composite figure because there were four or five guys who became these famous rebels–as opposed to the army–and they called themselves patriots.
艾莫瑞奇：那是很棒的剧本。当我签约时他们让我觉得这是关于 Francis Marion 的电影，于是我把关于他的每本书都读了。不过剧本里他有七个孩子、史实中他却只有一个。于是我了解这并不是关于他个人的片，这主角是多个不同历史人物的集成，在那故事中有四到五个史实人物成为了著名的叛乱者，嗯只是对英军来说的叛乱者啦，他们称自己为爱国者。
You’ve always been a political person personally, but it’s not something that showed up in your movies. But after that, you did The Day After Tomorrow, a film with a strong environmental message that was very unique at the time.
你私下一直是个热衷政治的人，但这并不显现在你此前电影中。不过后来，你拍了《明天过后》，是一部环境讯息强烈的电影，在那时相当特别。
EMMERICH: I had to kind of trick Hollywood to make this movie, because I said to myself and said to them what I said to my friends and my sister when they asked me what I was doing next, and I said a film about global warming. They said, “What?” I wanted to do something about climate change and I came across a book called The Coming of the Global Superstorm written by Whitley Strieber and Art Bell who had this crazy radio show, and Strieber wrote Communion where he thinks he got abducted by aliens. I
recently acquired another of his books and he told me he has a brain implant. He’s that kind of guy. So it was a great idea where one superstorm brings on a new Ice Age. When you think about global warming, anything can happen with climate change. You might radically tell it, but the underlying science was totally real. So I acquired the rights and changed the title and wrote it a bit in the style of Independence Day. Everyone wanted a new Independence Day. It was called The Day After Tomorrow and they
weren’t so happy about the title, but there was this feeding frenzy going on and I could make the film.
艾莫瑞奇：我有点像是骗了好莱坞帮我拍这片，因为我把我朋友和我妹问我下部想拍什么时的答案告诉了他们：“我想拍部全球暖化片”，他们只打“什么？”我一直想为气候变迁做点事，而我读到了 Whitley Strieber and Art Bell 著作的《即将到来的全球超级风暴》，他们有个疯狂的广播秀、Strieber 还写了 "Communion" 这本书描述他认为自己被外星人绑架的经验，最近我还拿到了他的新著作、而他告诉我他脑里有外星人芯片，他就是这样的家伙。
一个超级暴风带来了新的冰河期，这是很棒的概念。当你想到全球暖化时，任何事都可以随着气候变迁而发生。你也许可以很夸张地讲这故事，但它底下的科学可是货真价实。所以我取得了此书改编权、改了它标题、并以一种 ID4风格来编写剧本。大家都想要下一部《ID4 星际终结者》（独立纪念日），但我这片叫做《明天过后》（后天），他们都不太喜欢这片名，但那时一股狂热流窜著，于是我能拍这片。
You campaigned for Hilary Clinton, you are a big supporter of LGBTQ rights, and gave a large donation to Outfest for their Legacy Project for the preservation of gay and lesbian films. Why did you want to make that contribution to preserve those films?
你替希拉蕊克林顿助选，你是 LGBTQ平权支持者，也赞助了一大笔给 Outfest加州同志电影节，支持他们保存男同与女同电影的 Legacy Project。你为何会想在电影保存上做点贡献呢？
EMMERICH: I really believe that movies have to say something. It doesn’t matter what it is. Even with successful movies like Independence Day, everyone knows what it means to be invaded when things come and destroy your life, and it’s about your fight for freedom. I think that’s a universal theme. I became very concerned about the environment and I had the feeling I had to do something about it and came up with that. Then you have to be smart in the way you do it. I was recently asked by a journalist
why I think there are no environmental movies anymore and I said, “Well, there aren’t any original movies anymore, but if you invent like a superhero who fights climate change, maybe then you can do it.”
艾莫瑞奇：我认真相信电影必须说点事情，说什么都好。就算是看了商业成功的《ID4 星际终结者》这种片，人们也会知道当你被侵略生活被毁灭的感觉，而这关于为自由而战。我认为这是个普世的题材。我渐渐对环境愈发忧心而觉得我必须做点事，才有了这些想法，然后你必须聪明地实践它。最近有个记者问我，为什么我觉得现在都没环境电影了？我说“这样说吧，现在连原创电影都没了，但你若创作一部关于超级英雄对抗气候变迁的片，也许你还能做。”
You’re political but you’re not perceived that way.
你是很政治的，但你并没被人们这样看待。
EMMERICH: Yes. They always think I’m Right Wing or something. People love to put people in a box and say that this is what you are. I had three movies that did really well, Independence Day, Godzilla, and The Day After Tomorrow, which were all about destruction and they think you’re the master of disaster. What will you destroy next?
艾莫瑞奇：是地。他们总觉得我是右派这类的。人们喜欢把人放进个小框架去界定他。我拍过《ID4 星际终结者》《酷斯拉》《明天过后》三部大卖的片，三部都关于大毁灭。而他们就觉得你是灾难大师、你下部要毁掉什么？
Midway is about to come out. You didn’t go the typical route of going to a studio and getting them to pay for it. You financed it in the independent market.
《决战中途岛》快上映了，你这次不照老方法找大片厂出资，而是在独立市场筹资。
EMMERICH: I was forced to do it that way. I went to every studio, and at that stage, the movie had a much bigger budget of $125 million, and they said it’s too expensive. Then our agents and other people said maybe we go to the independent market, maybe to China, and that’s what we did. Roeg Sutherland went out and looked for Chinese money and there was huge interest. We went to Cannes and someone could pay $80 million, but I needed $20 million more. So they said you can keep the US market and it was
stop, go, stop, go, stop, go. I have the feeling that’s the future for directors of my kind because studios aren’t so inclined anymore to risk anything. With movies costing more than $50-60 million, you have to take a risk because you have to pay $35 million for print and advertising on top of your budget. Then they’re looking at every war movie ever made and they realize only three movies made enough money to make their budgets back, so they naturally decided against it. It was tough, but we pulled
through it and we’re very proud of the film.
艾莫瑞奇：我不得不这么做。我找过每一家大片厂，在此阶段此片有高于以往的一亿两千五百万，而他们都说这太贵了。于是我们的经纪人与其他人都说也许我们该改找独立制片市场、也许去找中国，我们就这么做了。Roeg Sutherland 去找中资而有很多人表示兴趣。我们去坎城遇到有人能给我们八千万，可是我还需要再多两千万。于是他们说你们可回美国市场找，然后就是一路找一路碰壁。
我有种感觉，这就是我这类导演所面对的未来了，因为大片厂并再也不倾向冒任何的风险。拍一部五六千万以上的电影，你必须冒点风险，因为你还要在预算上多花三千五百万宣传。然后他们看看每部过去拍过的战争片，就发现其实只有三部曾经真正回本，所以很自然地他们拒绝了我这部。这很艰辛，但我们撑过来了，我们对这部片感到自豪。
Is that the biggest shift now, going to the independent market to get finance?
转向独立市场找资金，这是最大的转变吗？
EMMERICH: The most successful film in the last year was Avengers: Endgame, and I heard the Russo brothers wanted to do the original movie for $50/60 million, and they had a tough time getting it financed. It made $2.8 billion. It doesn’t matter for Hollywood how much because they don’t think it’s these guys doing it. It’s Marvel, it’s Kevin Feige, it’s this whole big apparatus who make these films.
艾莫瑞奇：过去这一年最成功的电影是《复仇者联盟：终局之战》。我听说罗素兄弟原来想用五六千万拍原创电影，但很难找到资金。但复四卖了28亿。好莱坞其实不在乎钱，因为他们不认为是这些影人在做电影。这是漫威、这是凯文费吉、是这个巨大机器在做这些电影。
The Day After Tomorrow was the first Hollywood film about carbon emissions based on calculations from a UCLA study. How do you deal with it [carbon emissions] when you make movies?
《明天过后》是第一部关于碳排放的好莱坞片，而且还是基于 UCLA 的研究运算。那你在制作电影时怎么处理碳排放问题呢？
EMMERICH: To pay for carbon emissions is a good thing, but it won’t change much. I think we all have to become vegetarians, to figure out how not to use oil, there are a lot of things we have to do. When you see how big the problem is, there are solutions. I’m actually really pessimistic. The first time I was a bit optimistic was when kids all over the world led by a 16-year-old girl from Sweden [Greta Thunberg] started going on the streets and she recently spoke in front of the UN. I think the future
generation sees the problem as so big that they want to tell everybody. But politicians don’t really care.
艾莫瑞奇：为碳排付费是好事，但这做不出多少改变。我认为我们都该开始吃素、想想如何能不用汽油，有很多事情我们必须努力。当你看见问题很大时，其实都有解决办法。事实上我很悲观，我第一次感到乐观是听说全球孩子们响应一个 16 岁瑞典少女（葛瑞塔桑伯格）开始上街头、而且她还在联合国演说。我想下个世代很严肃地看见大问题、急切想告诉每个人，但政客们并不真关心。
Do you have any tips for young filmmakers?
有什么给年轻电影人的小建议吗？
EMMERICH: The industry has changed since I first went to Hollywood. They wanted creativity, now it’s the opposite. I’ve found it was more important the things I said no to as opposed to the things I said yes to. It’s much more important that you know what you want than what other people want you to do.
艾莫瑞奇：从我踏进好莱坞到现在，电影产业已经变了。他们曾经想要创造力，现在则是相反。我发现过去我说 no 的事情，也许比我过去说 yes的事情还要重要。你知道自己想做什么，比别人想要你做什么重要多了。
There’s a period now when Hollywood wants prequels and sequels. Why and how will it change?
现在是个好莱坞很想拍续集与前传的时代。为什么如此？它会怎么改变？
EMMERICH: Hollywood is always changing. If you don’t change with it you become a dinosaur. I hope it will change again because I don’t think the quality of movies we are making are as good as maybe in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, even 10 years ago. Every once in a while good movies are made, but now big movies often only work because a hero has some funny dress or can fly. It’s a little depressing but in the end, you have to go with your times. I hope it will change again but I’m not so sure. You can never
predict the future, it would be great, so you just have to concentrate on what you’re doing and hope people out in the world want to see it.
艾莫瑞奇：好莱坞一直都在改变，如果你不跟着他改变你就变老恐龙了。我希望它能再次改变，因为我不认为现在我们做电影的品质有像 70s 80s 90s甚至十年前那样高。每隔一阵子就会有部好片，但现在大片往往只有靠穿逗趣戏服或会飞天的的英雄才成功。这令人有点沮丧，但最终你必须跟上你的时代。我希望它会再改变但我不太敢肯定。你从无法预测未来，未来也许会很好，所以你但专心做好你在做的事，并希望世上的人们会想看见。
What more can you tell us about Midway?
关于《决战中途岛》你能透露些什么？
EMMERICH: As I said, I wanted to do Midway for 20 years and I’m super excited about that story. When you analyze it, it’s a simple story and it’s good that I didn’t do it then because people aren’t as sensitive as they are now, because it tells of people holding off fascism and it was exactly seen then like that. When you see how nationalism played against globalism – I’m a globalist, I think everyone should work together and nations are a thing of the past. But now it’s exactly the opposite.
There are demagogues who tell people to be nationalistic and everything will be better, but nationalism created World War II. So I think it’s a good story to tell today.
艾莫瑞奇：如我刚刚说的，我想拍《决战中途岛》已经二十年了，我对它的故事超兴奋的。当你分析它，它是个简单的故事，而我当年没拍成也好，因为当年人们还没像现在这么敏锐，因为这片讲个人们对抗法西斯主义的的战争、人们当时的人们就真的会如此观看它。当你看看国族主义怎么与全球主义对立著 — 我是个全球主义者，我认为所有人都该一起合作，也认为国族应该是个过去式，可惜现况刚好相反。到处都有煽动者在告诉人们当个国族主义者一切都会变更好，但国族主义造成了二次世界大战呀。所以我想这是个今日值得一谈的好故事。
Do you believe in aliens?
你相信有外星人吗？
EMMERICH: I get asked that question a lot. I have to say I wish there were aliens, because it’s such a great story and you can make so many different stories. I think aliens have taken over from fairies and other fable-like creatures. I also believe that Hollywood isn’t doing a good job these days in educating the world. I think they’re doing exactly the opposite. They’re telling kids that superheroes exist, and they don’t exist. In a disaster movie, normal regular people have to become heroes and
not superheroes.
艾莫瑞奇：我常被问这问题。我必须说我希望有外星人，因为这是个好故事而且你能创造出更多不同故事。我认为外星人在影坛已取代了精灵与寓言故事。我也觉得好莱坞在教育世界上做得并不怎么好，我认为他们做的恰恰相反。他们告诉孩子们超级英雄存在，而事实上他们并不存在。在一部灾难电影中，一般平凡人必须成为英雄，而不是超级英雄。
Which actors have you liked working with?
你喜欢和哪些演员共事的经验？
EMMERICH: I’ve always liked and really admired Mel Gibson; he was always on the set of The Patriot every day and was the easiest actor I’ve worked with. In Anonymous, which was more an ensemble, I worked with a lot of great actors coming from the theatre like Vanessa Redgrave and Rhys Ifans and it was probably the best time of my life. It was the first time working with people where it wasn’t just about the acting but also about the storytelling and what the scene has to tell you.
艾莫瑞奇：我一直很欣赏梅尔吉勃逊，他每天都参与在《决战时刻》片场中，而且他是我合作过最好相处的演员。在《莎士比亚的秘密》这部比较偏群戏的电影中，我则与许多来自剧场的伟大演员合作，譬如凡妮莎蕾德葛利夫与莱斯伊凡斯，那也许是我生命中最棒的一段时光。那是我第一次与人共同合作不只是在谈演戏、更在谈说故事的方法、谈每一景要向你诉说什么。
After disaster movies and historical movies, what movies do you want to make?
拍完灾难片和历史片后，你还想拍什么片？
EMMERICH: I wrote a script 20 years ago and recently rewrote it extensively. It’s called Shooting Star and is a very comedic movie but also delves into a movie shoot taking place in the Californian desert in 1919, 1920 or 1921. It’s about filmmaking. That’s probably closest to my heart these days and I know I have to do one or two other movies beforehand, but I’m looking forward to doing that.
艾莫瑞奇：有个剧本我二十年前就写了，最近又进一步重写了。这部叫作《流星》，是部很喜剧的片，谈加州沙漠里一个拍片现场，年代在 1919, 1920 或 1921 ，是个关于电影制作的故事。这也许是近来最贴近我心的题材，而我知道我应该先拍一两部其他电影，不过我非常期待做这部。