※ 引述《Dreamho (☞Unlimitation☜)》之铭言：
: 禁止各报章杂志新闻记者及网站转录截录抄袭
: 给不想看全文的，帮你们截取有提到柯文哲或台湾的部分
: 不代表本人立场
: https://imgur.com/a/QSD3wUk
: 先提到柯文哲“涉及”去中国发展ECMO
: https://imgur.com/a/GSDNtRv
: 这段葛特曼表示即使有疑虑，依然将柯文哲列为嫌疑犯
: https://imgur.com/a/0yAYamY
: 柯文哲是为了推广机器，中国人参加研讨会是为了赚钱
: https://imgur.com/a/9AZUOLC
: 不论一开始立意是否良善，中国拿ECMO来乱搞
: 所以柯文哲参加了“地狱研讨会”
: https://imgur.com/a/QbtXFko
: “台湾”是共犯结构，可以决定未来
: 葛特曼表示他也被许多人攻击
: https://imgur.com/a/2eeC6Ko
: 所以台北市民，请帮中共出声，向全世界展现你们的勇气
: 我先说结论
: 葛特曼本人看起来也知道柯文哲是去帮美力敦推广ECMO
: 但研讨会中有几个医生拿ECMO乱搞，所以柯文哲是共犯嫌疑
: 而葛特曼认为ECMO会在中国被用做活摘器官牟取暴利
: 因此看来不太同意中国人拥有使用ECMO的机会
: 以下听证会全文
: Westminster
: 3rd Round Table Briefing on Organ Harvesting in China
: Ethan Gutmann
: 16 October, 2018
: 英国西敏寺大教堂
: 中国强摘器官的第三次发布会
: 伊森‧葛特曼
: 2018 年 10 月 16 日
: Thank you.
: I’ll be speaking about Taiwan today, but I want to begin with four stubborn
: facts.
: 谢谢，我今天会讲到台湾，但我想先提到四点不可否认的事实
: 1) Our report, Bloody Harvest/The Slaughter: an Update, released in 2016,
: showed that China is not performing 10,000 or 15,000 transplants per year as
: Beijing claims, but 60,000 to 100,000 transplants a year. Huang Jiefu, China’
: s spokesman on the organ harvesting issue recently embraced that volume. He
: says that China will be doing 50,000 transplants in a few years. Where will
: the organs come from?
: 我们在 2016 年发布的报告《血腥的器官摘取/大屠杀：更新版》显示，中国绝不只像北
: 京宣称的每年进行 10,000 至 15,000 次的器官移植，而是高达 60,000 到100,000 件。
: 中国政府在器官移植议题上的发言人黄洁夫最近也基本承认了这个数量，他说中国在几年
: 内就会达到每年 50,000 件器官移植的数量，这些器官都哪里来的？
: 2) Over the last year, Beijing has blood-tested approximately 15 million
: Uyghurs – every man, woman and child in Xinjiang.
: 在过去一年中，北京政府从超过 1,500 万维吾尔族人身上抽取了血液样本，包含新疆的
: 每个男人、女人、小孩
: 3) As I speak, over one million Uyghurs are in “Re-education Camps.”
: 在当下，超过一百万维吾尔族人被关在所谓“再教育营”中
: 4) And the CCP are building 9 crematoriums in Xinjiang. The first one in
: Urumqi
: has just opened. It has 50 security guards.
: 中共还在新疆建立 9 个火葬场，第一个刚刚在乌鲁木齐开始营运，光是那一个就驻扎了
: 50 名保安人员
: We cannot - I cannot - stop Beijing, any more than a monk on the West coast
: of Ireland could stop the Vikings from pillaging European civilization. My
: job is to compile an accurate history. So, I am going to examine one factor -
: one among many - that I believe contributed to the current situation.
: 我不能阻止中共，就像当年在爱尔兰西岸旁观的僧人无法停止维京人横扫欧洲文明一样，
: 但我的工作是要把历史准确的陈述出来。今天我要讲一个很关键的重点，这是我觉得促成
: 了今天器官活摘现状的重要因素。
: It’s a medical technology known as ECMO. Extracorporeal membrane
: oxygenation. And a man named Dr. Ko Wen-je, third from the right in this
: photograph of an ECMO conference at Wuxi Hospital in 2008. Dr. Ko is
: currently mayor of Taipei. Dr. Ko’s involvement in ECMO goes back to at
: least 2000.
: 那就是叫做叶克膜（ECMO）的技术，还有一个叫做柯文哲的医生，就是这张照片右边数来
: 第三人，这是在 2008 年无锡市医院举办的叶克膜研讨会上拍摄的照片。柯医师现在已经
: 成了台北市的市长，柯医师从最早 2000 年就开始涉及到中国的叶克膜发展。
: In 2008, Dr. Ko told me in an interview that he knew first-hand about Falun
: Gong organ harvesting in at least one hospital in China back in 2005 – and
: that account of the interview, which was agreed on by both parties in
: writing, is now in my book, The Slaughter.
: 柯文哲在 2008 年的一次访谈中告诉我，他最早在 2005 年就亲自知道，中国至少有一间
: 医院在活摘法轮功学员的器官。这场访谈现在被记录在我的书《屠杀》里，而且我们双方
: 当年都同意了我出版的内容。
: That account will never change. But my view of Dr. Ko? That has changed.
: 书里的内容永远不会改变，但我对柯文哲的观感已经彻底改变了。
: As I discovered shortly before I went to Taiwan to promote the Mandarin
: publication of my book, Dr. Ko was at this conference only three months
: before our interview　in 2008. I cannot un-see the picture. And I cannot
: un-see the schedule for the conference that Ko participated in.
: 在我最近出发到台湾推广我的书中译本之前，我发现柯文哲在 2008 年曾经参与了那场叶
: 克膜研讨会，而且就在我们访谈进行的三个月前。那张研讨会的合照让我看了想忘都忘不
: 掉，我也不会忘记研讨会的会议行程表，显示柯参与其中
: Many Taiwanese researchers are far more equipped to investigate this
: conference than I am. And in fact, my own findings on this conference has
: already been surpassed by Falun Gong researchers. But if I use sources I
: trust - the 2016 Update with Kilgour and Matas, which I co-wrote, and
: documents from the World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun
: Gong, which I co-edited – I can say a few words about the hospitals and
: individuals on this schedule.
: 许多在台湾研究这个议题的人都比我更有能力进一步调查这场叶克膜研讨会，事实上法轮
: 功的研究者已经超越了我自己收集到这个研讨会的资料。但光就我在 2016 年与大卫·麦
: 塔斯和大卫·乔高一同撰写出版的报告，我可以讲讲这场研讨会上出现的医院和医生。
: Every individual and hospital that is suspected to have been involved in the
: organ harvesting of political and religious prisoners is highlighted in red.
: Although there are ambiguities about Dr. Ko’s activities in China, for
: simplicity, I have also highlighted Ko Wen-je’s name in red. Ko was the only
: non-mainlander to give a presentation. He presents at the 12:00 session.
: 我们在这里把每个怀疑曾涉嫌对政治和宗教良心犯进行器官活摘的个人和医院都用红体字
: 标注起来，尽管我们对于柯文哲在中国究竟做了什么还有疑虑，我们也先把他的名子改成
: 红色。柯文哲在当天中午 12 点进行了讲座
: This schedule is a sea of red. I’ll just go down the list in order, starting
: with theconference venue:
: 可以看出，在这场研讨会演讲的许多人都有活摘器官嫌疑
: ‧ Wuxi People’s Hospital was closely examined in our 2016 update because it
: is exclusively approved for lung transplants - and yet we know it also
: carries out eight other types - kidney, liver, heart, pancreas, cornea, stem
: cell, bone marrow, and vascular grafts. Because Wuxi claims to have completed
: more than half of all lung transplant surgeries in China, we suspect that
: some of those lungs are from Falun Gong.
: ‧ 我们在 2016 年的更新报告中特别观察了无锡市人民医院，该院不只获得独特的肺移
: 植许可，还进行其他八种移植手术，肾脏、肝脏、心脏、胰脏、角膜、干细胞、骨髓、和
: 人工血管。因为无锡市人民医院宣称他们进行超过全中国一半数量的肺移植手术，我们怀
: 疑法轮功学员是肺来源之一。
: ‧ Chen Zhonghua participated in multi-organ extractions from 65 “donors”
: from January 2000 to August 2006. When Chen ran the Wuhan Tongji hospital
: institute of organ transplantation in 2006, the hospital was asked if it
: could perform live organ transplantation from Falun Gong prisoners. The
: Kidney Transplant department replied: “Sure, it’s no problem…When you are
: ready, you can come over directly and we will discuss it in detail.”
: ‧ 陈忠华从 2000 年 1 月到 2006 年 8 月对 65 个“器官捐赠者”进行了多个器官同
: 时移除的手术。在 2006 年，陈忠华还是武汉同济医院器官移植研究所的所长的时
: 候，海外的调查人员打电话向医院询问他们是否可以取得法轮功学员器官的移植时，
: 该医院的肾脏移植部门回复“没问题啊，当你准备好时，到我们医院来跟我们进一
: 步讨论”
: ‧ Liu Deruo: Department of Surgery in the China-Japan Friendship Hospital. 7
: cases of single lung transplantation from brain-dead "donors” – a euphemism
: for live organ harvesting - before 2008. The hospital is a common destination
: for wealthy Japanese “organ tourists.”
: ‧ 这是刘德若，中日友好医院的外科主任医师，在 2008 年前进行过 7 次的肺移植手术
: ，都是从脑死的所谓“器官捐赠者”身上取得，通常那就意味着被器官活摘的受害者。中
: 日友好医院是日本“器官旅客”常来接受移植的热门医院。
: ‧ Chen Jingyu, the “No.1 Lung Transplant Surgeon in China.” Extracted
: lungs from 129 "donors" from 2002 to 2011. By 2014, Chen was doing up to five
: lung transplants per day. Taught perfusion preservation to 30 hospitals in 10
: cities and provinces. If I am not mistaken, that’s Dr. Ko on the left, and
: Dr. Chen on the right.
: ‧ 接下来是陈静瑜，号称“中国肺移植手术第一人”，2002 年到 2011 年间从“捐赠者
: ”身上取出了 129 个肺脏。到 2014 年为止，陈静瑜每天平均做五个肺移植手术，他向
: 10 个城市和省分的 30 间医院教导灌注保鼎x的专业技术。陈静瑜应该
: 就是照片右边那位，而柯文哲就在左边。
: ‧ Fuwai Hospital, number 1 in heart transplants. Song Yunhu is the chief
: surgeon.
: ‧ 北京阜外医院，这个医院进行中国最多的心脏移植，宋云虎是主任医师
: ‧ Shanghai Chest Hospital, Gao Chengxin. The most bilateral lung transplants
: in China to date. Dr. Han Baohui, director of pulmonary medicine at Shanghai
: Chest Hospital, reported classmate Zhao Bin to the police for practicing
: Falun Gong. Mr. Zhao was arrested in April 2012 and was tortured to death at
: a Shanghai facility on October 19, 2013.
: ‧ 接下来是上海市胸科医院的高成新，进行了中国最多的双肺移植手术。该院的肺内科
: 主任韩宝惠韩宝惠，曾向当局告密自己的同学赵斌修炼法轮功。赵斌在 2012 年4 月被捕
: ，2013 年 10 月 19 日在上海的监狱被摧残致死
: ‧ Chen Liangwen, VP of Fujian Medical University Union Hospital, extracted
: hearts from 111 brain-dead "donors” - average age about 25 years, no
: cardiovascular diseases. Warm ischemia time of 0-15 minutes, suggesting
: pre-scheduled live organ harvesting.
: ‧ 福建医科大学附属协和医院副院长陈良万，他破了 16 个“中国第一”纪录，从 111
: 个脑死的“捐赠者”取出心脏，平均寿命 25 岁，都没有心脏疾病，热缺血时间为 0-15
: 分钟，这又是另一项纪录，说明了是事先计画好了的器官活摘
: ‧ Wang Chunsheng. Director of Cardiac Surgery, Zhongshan Hospital in
: Shanghai, Shanghai’s premier organ transplant center. From 2000 to 2011,
: Wang extracted hearts from 298 "donors”: average age 27 years; no
: cardiovascular problems. Since 2007, 238 live hearts have been extracted at
: Zhongshan.
: ‧ 王春生，上海中山医院的心脏外科主任。从 2000 到 2011 年，王从 298 名“捐赠者
: ”身上取出心脏，平均寿命 27 岁，没有心脏疾病历史。2007 年以来，他从取出了 238
: 个心脏。
: ‧ Here is a recorded phone call to Zhongshan from 2006:
: Investigator: … So how long do I have to wait [for organ transplant surgery]?
: Doctor: About a week after you come…
: Investigator: Is there the kind of organs that come from Falun Gong? I heard
: that
: they are very good.
: Doctor: All of ours are those types.Here’s a quote from Tan Yunshan,
: director of Zhongshan Hospital’s liver disease department in 2015. “All the
: donor livers are directly extracted at the source. Because we do the
: extraction ourselves and have access to the original information of the donor
: organ, we would know for sure whether a donor liver can be used or not…We don
: ’t care whether it’s from a Falun Gong practitioner or not. We don’t get
: involved in politics. As doctors, we only care about the donor liver, about
: whether it meets the requirements of transplantation. If it meets the
: requirements, we don’t care who it’s from.”
: ‧ 下面是对中山医院肝调查的电话录音:
: 调查员：要等多久呀？
: 医生：来了一个礼拜左右就可以做了。
: 调查员：有没有这种炼法轮功的这种提供的，这种提供的说是很好……
: 医生：我们这儿的都是这种“所有捐献肝都是直接从源头获取的。 因为我们自己进行提
: 取，并且能够获得捐赠器官的原始信息，我们就能确定捐献者的肝脏是否可以使用… 我
: 们不关心它是否来自法轮功学员。我们不参与政治。作为医生，我们只关心捐赠的肝脏，
: 关心它是否符合移植的要求。如果它符合要求，我们不关心它来自谁。”
: ‧ Meng Xu, founder of the Beijing Heart Transplant Centre. From 1992 to
: 2006, Meng participated in the extraction of hearts from 51 “donors”:
: males; age range 21-43 years. No cardiovascular diseases. Warm ischemia time,
: 3-8 minutes. Meng has independently completed nearly 10,000 surgeries, with
: over 800 operations every year.
: ‧ 这是孟旭，北京心脏移植中心的创始人，从 1992 年到 2006 年他参与了摘除 51个“
: 器官捐赠者”的心脏，都是男性，年龄 21-43 岁，没有心脏疾病历史，热缺血时间为
: 3-8 分钟。孟旭独自完成了将近 10,000 次手术，每年都有超过 800 次。
: I am going to skip ahead because we are short on time.
: 因为时间缘故，我在这里要跳过一些内容。
: ‧ Last entry; Tianjin Central Hospital. Estimated to do 5000 transplants
: annually, essentially half of the entire transplant volume of China,
: according to Chinese official numbers, for over a decade. Over half of its
: patients are said to be foreign organ tourists.
: ‧ 最后一个是天津市第一中心医院，估计每年有 5000 件器官移植，十几年来几乎占据
: 官方统计全国移植数量的一半。过半数在这里接受器官移植的是外国人。
: So what was this conference about? Well, as the conference subtitle suggests:
: Medtronic ECMO. Medtronic is an American company based in Minnesota. And, Dr.
: Ko sells Medtronic ECMO machines and expertise on the Mainland.
: 这个研讨会的重点是什么？为什么这些人会来参加呢？当然是为了叶克膜而来。柯文哲是
: 为了推销美敦力的叶克膜机器而到中国大陆。
: ECMO can be used during harvesting, but the bottom line is that it prolongs
: the opportunity to use a lung or a heart up to eight hours. As Dr. Ko has
: pointed out, ECMO saves lives.
: 叶克膜可以用来作为活摘器官的工具，它可以将肺脏或心脏的寿命延长最长达 8 小时，
: 如同柯所说的，叶克膜可以拯救生命
: Indeed, it does. In Taiwan, in America, in Great Britain, in Japan,
: Australia. But in China, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of religious and
: political prisoners, do you think the majority of people at this
: 的确，叶克膜在台湾、美国、英国、日本、澳洲都发挥了拯救生命的角色，但在中国，因
: 为有着几乎无数的宗教和政治良心犯，把叶克膜带进中国的结果是截然不同的
: ECMO conference were interested in saving lives? I think they were interested
: in making money. From the perspective of that conference, Dr. Ko was valuable
: – until 2008 at least - to the Mainland organ transplant industry in three
: ways:
: 参加这个叶克膜研讨会的人是为了想拯救人命而来吗？我想他们应该是因为想要赚钱而来
: 的。从研讨会的角度来看，柯文哲的参与是有价值的，至少到 2008 年为止，柯对于中国
: 大陆器官移植产业的可利用处有三点：
: 1) As a conduit to “organ tourists” from Taiwan
: 扮演一个中间人的角色，让台湾较为有钱的“器官旅客”前往中国
: 2) As a salesman of Medtronic ECMO equipment to the Mainland
: 扮演一个推销员的角色，推销美敦力的叶克膜器材到中国大陆
: 3) As a teacher of ECMO techniques.
: 扮演一个教师的角色，教导中国如何使用叶克膜技术
: ECMO means that if you are harvesting a Falun Gong, or a Uyghur, or a
: Tibetan, you can make a lot more money from harvesting a single person. Here
: are the prices. And here is a picture of five Falun Gong refugees.
: 如果你在对法轮功学员、维吾尔人、或西藏人进行器官活摘，你可以利用叶克膜技术，来
: 增加活摘一个人器官可以得到的利润。这张就是器官的价格表，而这张照片就是五名法轮
: 功的难民。
: All of the women in this picture were in labor camp. All were tortured. One
: was sexually abused. And the woman on the left, Jing Tian, was examined for
: her organs. Before ECMO, if she was harvested while still alive, and tissue
: matched to foreign organ tourists who were present at the same hospital, she
: was worth $200,000 USD, maybe $250,000 USD, if we throw in the corneas. Let’
: s split the difference and call it $225,000 USD.
: 所有这张照片里的女子都被关进劳改营过，她们全都被刑求过。在劳改营中她们其中一人
: 遭受了性侵害，而最左边这名女士京田（音译）还被检验过器官。如果她在没有叶克膜的
: 情况下被器官活摘了，而器官在医院被配给外国来的器官移植旅客，她的器官总价值会是
: 大约$200,000 美元，如果加上眼角膜或许可以值$200,000 美元，姑且估算为$225,000
: 美元好了。
: After ECMO? Jing Tian was worth $680,000 USD. And I think everyone at that
: ECMO conference in 2008 understood this calculation.
: 如果利用叶克膜呢？京田身上的器官价值会增加到$680,000 美元，大概增加了两倍。我
: 认为参加那个 2008 年叶克膜研讨会的人，都非常清楚这个数字代表什么。
: In short, no matter what the original intentions were, bringing ECMO to China
: created a perverse incentive to kill Falun Gong, Uyghurs, House Christians
: and Tibetans. We don’t know how many. We don’t know exactly how much Dr. Ko
: contributed to ECMO in China. Yet I have no doubt that ECMO accelerated the
: killing of innocent people. And I have no doubt that ECMO is a contributing
: factor to the spectacular growth of the transplant industry in China - and
: the spectacular human rights crisis that we see in Xinjiang today.
: 简单说，无论最初把叶克膜引进中国的用意为何，它所带来的结果就是让中国有更多杀害
: 法轮功学员、维吾尔人、西藏人的邪恶动机。我们不知道柯文哲对于中国的叶克膜技术到
: 底帮助了多少，但我毫无疑问肯定把叶克膜引进中国造成了更多无辜的人被杀害。我也毫
: 无疑问肯定叶克膜导致中国器官移植产业的急速发展，还有现在在新疆发生的巨大的人权
: 危机。
: But is all this fair to Taiwan? Dr. Ko is the respected mayor of Taipei. He’
: s running for reelection. So, does Taiwan really have to deal with questions
: about what Dr. Ko was doing at the conference-from-hell a decade ago? In
: conclusion then, I want to explain why I think it is my responsibility as a
: writer, and as a co-founder of the International Coalition to End Transplant
: Abuse in China - or ETAC for short – to ask these questions.
: 但讲这些对台湾公平吗？柯医生现在是受人欢迎的台北市市长，他还在竞选连任，台湾应
: 该质疑柯过往在这个“地狱研讨会”中究竟做了什么吗？我想说的是，我作为一个作者，
: 还有做为“全球制止中国器官强摘联盟”（ETAC）的发起人之一，我必须问一些问题。
: One of the clearest voices in ETAC - a voice of constant wisdom, calm, and
: clarity - is that of David Matas. So, when some transplant patients warned us
: that our work was being used by anti-vax conspiracy theorists, I proposed
: that ETAC begin promoting voluntary organ donation. Matas stopped me short
: with a single phrase: “avoid mission creep.” And he was right; groups
: dilute their strength by adopting other agendas. And ETAC’s primary mission
: is to save lives in China.
: 全球制止中国器官强摘联盟里面，一向最有远见、最冷静、而又最清楚的专家是大卫·麦
: 塔斯。当一些器官移植的病患开始提醒我们，说我们的研究被一些反疫苗接踵的阴谋论制
: 造者滥用来作为假证据时，我当时提议联盟可以开始鼓励自愿的器官捐赠注册，大卫·麦
: 塔斯则马上制止我，他说“不要超越我们最开始的任务初衷”。现在想起来他是对的，我
: 们的联盟若是开始涉及其他的任务便会翻散注意力，而我们最主要的任务还是要在中国拯
: 救生命。
: And yet: David Matas recently compared organ harvesting of political and
: religious prisoners in China to a virus, a virus which does not end at China’
: s borders, but has begun to infect pockets of the global medical community.
: 大卫·麦塔斯还将中国对于政治犯和宗教良心犯的器官活摘比喻为一种“病毒”，也就是
: 说这种“病毒”并不会影响中国国内，而是会散布到全球各地的医界。
: Think of the Vatican conferences on human trafficking, where China’s organ
这样葛大记者的论点很清楚了啦
柯医生就是罪该万死
因为柯医生发挥爱心 将叶克膜技术推广给救治正常中国民众的同时
他明知与会医生有参与活摘的罪恶工作 却没有对此做任何行动
没有偷藏技术不给中国民众被救 也没有在会上谴责中国 更没有带炸弹把这些坏医生炸死
所以这位专门躲在舒适圈写书 除此之外什么都没做的大记者谴责柯医生什么都没做