Re: [讨论] 数学家毕达哥拉斯竟然也相信轮回....

楼主: Tyler0914 (Project Mayhem)   2021-05-01 07:07:05
※ 引述《musashi0839 (常山七次郎)》之铭言:
: 毕达哥拉斯
: 小时候只有在学毕氏定理的时候听过他
: 今天在书店翻阅一本书有提到他
: "毕达哥拉斯学派提供了一种很有影响力的设想。这个神祕的传统相信有死后的人生,而且
: 死亡只是通往另一种人生的途径。毕达哥拉斯的追随者,包含柏拉图在内,都相信灵魂转
: 世:那些死亡的个体其实正要踏上一场长达三千年的旅程。他(或她)不朽的灵魂──就
: 某种意义而言就是这个人的同一性(identity of the person)──将会在“大地、海洋
: 、天空”的各种生物间一一轮回变换,直到再度进入某个躯体成为人类。
: 据说,毕达哥拉斯自称某次在路上看到一只遭人鞭打的小狗,他心生怜悯,大喊:“停手
: !别打了,牠体内的灵魂就是我的某位好朋友,我听到牠的叫声就认出来了。”另一则神
: 话描述的是他一开始是身为欧福尔布斯(Euphorbus),接着是赫尔墨提姆斯(
: Hermotimus)。身为赫尔墨提姆斯的他决定证明灵魂转世,于是他进入了一间神庙,正确
: 辨识出一面盾牌的旧时拥有者,尽管这面盾牌已经腐朽不堪了。他在身为赫尔墨提姆斯之
: 后是成为一名渔夫裴鲁斯(Pyrrhus),然后才是毕达哥拉斯。"
: (节录自<如果柏拉图也有Podcast:20位古希腊哲学家给现代人的生活思辨)
: 而且我查了一下
: 毕达哥拉斯的出生年分跟佛陀很接近 但一个在希腊 另一在尼泊尔
: 毕达哥拉斯应该是不太可能有机会听闻佛法
: 但是这种巧合 让我觉得很不可思议
: 更何况还是一个数学家 数学着重证明
: 但所谓轮回这种事却是难以证明的
: 一位数学家竟然如此笃定说出口
: 总觉得好奇妙
刚好27年前在唸外文系的时候奥维德(Ovid)的拉丁史诗
《变形记(Metamorphoses)》是必修课程里的内容之一,第15章
《毕达哥拉斯的教导(The Teachings of Pythagoras)》就在讲这个,
有兴趣的可以去找《Metamorphoses》来看。(是不建议啦,佛经都看
不完了,有那么多空闲时间还不如多读读佛经,人间糟粕书少看)
由于当时用的教科书是英译本的,这边就大略摘录几段翻译一下:
There was a man here, Samian born, but he
Had fled from Samos , for he hated tyrants
And chose, instead, an exile's lot. His thought
Reached far aloft, to the great gods in Heaven,
And his imagination looked on visions
Beyond his mortal sight. All things he studied
With watchful eager mind, and he brought home
What he had learned and sat among the people
(有个萨摩斯人因为厌恶暴君而逃离萨摩斯,甘愿流亡异乡。
他能和遥远天界的诸神灵犀相通。他的灵视能看见肉眼所无法看见的。
他把自己苦心求来的知识带回家乡与大众分享。)
↑萨摩斯人讲的就是古希腊人毕达哥拉斯(Pythagoras of Samos)
他是有流亡异乡过,所以说不定还真的去过印度。
毕竟西元前1200年雅利安人入侵印度,与当地土著
达罗毗荼人(Dravidian)冲突,历经6个世纪的战争,
雅利安人赶走达罗毗荼人,留下的达罗毗荼人成为雅利安人奴隶,
作为种姓制度的最底层。
一部份的亚利安人后来又从印度向西经过北非的埃及、再迁徙回
欧洲,变成吉普赛人。
连亚历山大大帝都于西元前326年远征印度。所以别太小看
上古时代欧洲人的“流动性”。
……all the secrets hidden
From man's imperfect knowledge. He was first
To say that animal food should not be eaten,
And learnèd as he was, men did not always
Believe him when he preached
(人有所不知的各种奥秘都是他探讨的课题。
他是第一个提倡不该以动物为食的人,虽然言者谆谆听者藐藐。)
↑这里奥维德写道,毕达哥拉斯是欧洲最早提倡素食的人,
至于为何毕达哥拉斯要提倡素食,以下开始就是
毕达哥拉斯的教学内容↓
“Forbear, O mortals,
To spoil your bodies with such impious food!
There is corn for you, apples, whose weight bears down
The bending branches; there are grapes that swell
On the green vines, and pleasant herbs, and greens
Made mellow and soft with cooking; there is milk
And clover-honey. Earth is generous
With her provision, and her sustenance
Is very kind; she offers, for your tables,
Food that requires no bloodshed and no slaughter.
Meat is for beasts to feed on, yet not all
Are carnivores, for horses, sheep, and cattle
Subsist on grass, but those whose disposition
Is fierce and cruel, tigers, raging lions,
And bears and wolves delight in bloody feasting.
Oh, what a wicked thing it is for flesh
To be the tomb of flesh, for the body's craving
To fatten on the body of another,
For one live creature to continue living
Through one live creature's death. In all the richness
That Earth, the best of mothers, tenders to us,
Does nothing please except to chew and mangle
The flesh of slaughtered animals? The Cyclops
Could do no worse! Must you destroy another
To satiate your greedy-gutted cravings?
(‘凡人啊,你们要自制,别用不洁的食物污染你们的身体!
明明就有五谷杂粮可以吃,树枝上有结实累累的苹果,
蔓藤上有红里透紫的葡萄。还有芬芳多汁的草本植物,稍一烹调
就鲜美可口。也不是没有奶或香气远播的蜂蜜。
大地丰饶富足,源源不绝供应食物,根本没必要流血屠宰。
只有野兽才需要肉类来充饥,而且还不是所有动物都是
肉食性动物,因为马、羊、牛都是吃草维生,只有野性未驯的
才吃肉,老虎、猛狮、熊、狼都喜欢带血的食物。
一团肉变成另一团肉的葬身之处、一个贪婪的身体吃下另一个身体
把自己养胖,靠着其他生灵的死亡来延续自己的生命,
噢,这真是罪过啊!
富足的大地之母生生不息滋养我们,你们却还残杀动物、
大口咀嚼他们的肉,效法独眼巨人那种令人发指的行径!
难道你们只能靠毁灭别的生命来安抚自己贪得无厌的口腹之欲?)
↑“独眼巨人”就是荷马史诗《奥德赛》当中的独眼巨人Cyclops,
食人为生。
There was a time, the Golden Age, we call it,
Happy in fruits and herbs, when no men tainted
Their lips with blood, and birds went flying safely
Through air, and in the fields the rabbits wandered
Unfrightened, and no little fish was ever
Hooked by its own credulity: all things
Were free from treachery and fear and cunning,
And all was peaceful. But some innovator,
A good-for-nothing, whoever he was, decided,
In envy, that what lions ate was better,
Stuffed meat into his belly like a furnace,
And paved the way for crime. It may have been
That steel was warmed and dyed with blood through killing
Dangerous beasts, and that could be forgiven
On grounds of self-defense; to kill wild beasts
Is lawful, but they never should be eaten.
(在我们称之为‘黄金年代’的时期充满了果实鲜蔬,
那时没有人会让血迹玷污自己的嘴唇,空中的飞鸟都很安全,
兔子在野外左蹦右跳也都无忧无虑,鱼也不致于因为自己的
纯朴好骗而中计上钩,天地苍生都不必担心诡计陷阱,
世间没有诈欺,只有和平。
偏偏就是有人开了恶例,始作俑者已经不可考,
他羡慕狮子的食物,有样学样把肉囫囵吞下肚,由此开启了
邪恶之门。也许刚开始杀的都是些猛兽,温血染红刀刃
被认为是正当的,猛兽危及我们的性命,所以杀生以求自保
也是情有可缘。但是并不代表我们该吃他们的肉。)
↑这里开始毕达哥拉斯开始讲述欧洲人认知的上古时代4个不同
时期:黄金年代、白银年代、青铜年代、(对,就是《圣斗士星矢》
里黄金圣斗士、白银圣斗士、青铜圣斗士那种分阶概念,这是当时欧洲普遍
对上古世纪年代演进的划分方式)以及黑铁年代,篇幅超长的就不全译了。
↓以下开始就是毕达哥拉斯讲述为何要提倡素食的理由:因为有“轮回”
今天吃动物、改天自己投胎作动物就被别人吃
“O mortals,
Dumb in cold fear of death, why do you tremble
At Stygian rivers, shadows, empty names,
The lying stock of poets, and the terrors
Of a false world? I tell you that your bodies
Can never suffer evil, whether fire
Consumes them, or the waste of time. Our souls
Are deathless; always, when they leave our bodies,
They find new dwelling-places. I myself,
I well remember, in the Trojan War
Was Panthous' son, Euphorbus, and my breast
Once knew the heavy spear of Menelaus.
Not long ago, in Argos, Abas' city,
In Juno's temple, I saw the shield I carried
On my left arm. All things are always changing,
But nothing dies. The spirit comes and goes,
Is housed wherever it wills, shifts residence
From beasts to men, from men to beasts, but always
It keeps on living. As the pliant wax
Is stamped with new designs, and is no longer
What once it was, but changes form, and still
Is pliant wax, so do I teach that spirit
Is evermore the same, though passing always
To ever-changing bodies. So I warn you,
Lest appetite murder brotherhood, I warn you
By all the priesthood in me, do not exile
What may be kindred souls by evil slaughter.
Blood should not nourish blood.
(‘凡人呀,死亡让你们吓得魂不守舍,你们为什么害怕
冥河与鬼魂这类空洞的名词呢?那不过只是诗人凭空杜撰的名堂,
子虚乌有不值识者一哂。你们的肉身不管是柴堆火化或土葬后,
随时光而腐朽,根本不会再受痛苦。我们的灵魂不会死亡,
只是搬离旧家、再另觅新居而已。我自己清楚记得在特洛伊战争里,
我是潘托俄斯的儿子优弗玻斯,胸膛被梅内劳斯的长矛刺穿。
不久前,我才在阿巴斯的亚果城
朱诺神庙里认出我前世曾拿在左手的那面盾牌!世事皆无常多变,
没有东西会真的死。灵魂来来去去,随兴寄居在各式躯壳里,
不是从兽体移居人体、就是从人体移居兽体,就是从不消亡。
就像软蜡盖上新印章,只是换个图样而已。改变的只有外在形体,
本质仍然是软蜡,我所教的就是这个道理,灵魂的本质始终不变,
只是一直不停更换躯体而已。因此我必须警告各位,别为了口腹之欲
而谋杀自己的兄弟,我以教士的身分告诫各位,别用邪恶的屠杀来
驱赶你亲属的灵魂,别以血养血。)
↑这里就提到,毕达哥拉斯他有“前世记忆”,记得自己参加过
发生在西元前1260~1240年间的“特洛伊战争”被人用长矛穿胸而亡,
所以毕达哥拉斯深信人不该吃肉,并把吃肉描述成“以血养血”的恶行。
然后毕达哥拉斯讲述万物变迁的“无常”之理,篇幅又好长一大段,
相信各位佛版的大德们早已对“无常”之理耳熟能详,就无须全录。
简短节录最后几部分:
Our bodies also change. What we have been,
What we now are, we shall not be tomorrow.
There was a time when we were only seed,
Only the hope of men, housed in the womb,
Where Nature shaped us, brought us forth, exposed us
To the void air, and there in light we lay,
Feeble and infant, and were quadrupeds
Before too long, and after a little wobbled
And pulled ourselves upright, holding a chair,
The side of the crib, and strength grew into us,
And swiftness; youth and middle age went swiftly
Down the long hill toward age, and all our vigor
Came to decline, so Milon, the old wrestler,
Weeps when he sees his arms whose bulging muscles
Were once like Hercules', and Helen weeps
To see her wrinkles in the looking glass:
Could this old woman ever have been ravished,
Taken twice over? Time devours all things
With envious Age, together. The slow gnawing
Consumes all things, and very, very slowly.
Not even the so-called elements are constant.
Listen, and I will tell you of their changes.
There are four of them, and two, the earth and water,
Are heavy, and their own weight bears them downward,
And two, the air and fire (and fire is purer
Even than air) are light, rise upward
If nothing holds them down. These elements
Are separate in space, yet all things come
From them and into them, and they can change
Into each other. Earth can be dissolved
To flowing water, water can thin to air,
And air can thin to fire, and fire can thicken
To air again, and air condense to water,
And water be compressed to solid earth.
Nothing remains the same: the great renewer,
Nature, makes form from form, and, oh, believe me
That nothing ever dies. What we call birth
Is the beginning of a difference,
No more than that, and death is only ceasing
Of what had been before. The parts may vary,
Shifting from here to there, hither and yon,
And back again, but the great sum is constant.
Nothing, I am convinced, can be the same
Forever. There was once an Age of God,
Later, an Age of Iron. Every place
Submits to Fortune's wheel. I have seen oceans
That once were solid land, and I have seen
Lands made from ocean. Often sea-shells lie
Far from the beach, and men have found old anchors
On mountain-tops. Plateaus have turned to valleys,
Hills washed away, marshes become dry desert,
Deserts made pools. Here Nature brings forth fountains,
There shuts them in; when the earth quakes, new rivers
Are born and old ones sink and dry and vanish.
Lycus, for instance, swallowed by the earth
Emerges far away, a different stream
(我们的肉身也是变动不息的。昨天的样貌、当下的样貌,
都不同于明天的样貌。我们都曾是居住在母亲子宫里的种子,
造化巧施妙手,赋予我们形体、再把我们带到天光之下。
脆弱的婴儿期,像兽类一般四脚爬地,然后渐渐能直立,
扶床椅走路愈趋平稳。然后愈来愈有体力、身手日趋矫健;
青年到中年时光飞逝如梭,就像直下漫长的坡道一样直达老年,
我们的活力也随之走下坡,所以像米隆那样的摔角手看到自己过去
宛如海克力士般肌肉健壮的手臂如今松垂无力,也不禁潸然落泪。
一代倾城美女海伦从镜子里看到脸上的皱纹也要流泪自问:
怎么会有男人两度为争夺这个老女人大动干戈?
───海伦曾被裴修斯劫走,后来又被派瑞斯夺走,引发特洛伊战争───
时光伴随嫉妒的岁月吞噬了一切。两者联手啃蚀消磨
万物,一点一滴缓如凌迟。
甚至连我们所谓的基本原素也并非恒久不变的。它们的变化且听我道来。
有四大元素,其中地与水是沉重的,它们本身的重量让它们往下沉,
另外两样,风与火(火又比风还清纯一些)则是轻的,只要没被往下拉,
都会自然向上升。在太虚当中这四种元素是各自分离,
世间万物因它们和合而生,也因它们崩解分离而灭。
四种元素却又可以彼此互相转变。土地可以分解液化成流水、
水可以稀薄到变成气体、气体可以淡化成火、火势浓重又可以再变成气体,
气体凝结成水,水聚合凝固成为土。没有任何东西可以保留原本的形态:
大造是伟大的更新者,不断把万物从一种形态变成另一种形态,噢,相信我,
在这当中没有任何东西会真的死亡。我们所谓的诞生,
只是开始变成跟既有的状态不一样,而死亡也只是既有状态的终止。
各种元素会变换,从这里变到那里,然后再不断循环,
但是所有元素总合起来的量始终不变。
我确信任何东西都不可能长久维持相同的形貌。以前曾有黄金时代、
继之而起的是黑铁时代,每个地方也都在命运轮转中浮沉。
我见过陆地变成海洋,也见过海洋变成陆地。常有贝壳散落在远离海岸的地方,
也有人在山顶上发现过古代的船锚。高原变成山谷,山丘被水冲走,
沼泽变成旱地,旱漠变成水乡泽国。大造在此让清泉涌出,又封住另一边的泉源;
当大地震动,新的河流出现、旧河截流干涸。
比方像律科斯河被大地吞没后,又在远处以另一条河形貌出现。)
↑这里毕达哥拉斯提到构成万物的“地、水、火、风”四大元素,
与佛家讲的“四大”是一样的,其实这就是上古时代亚利安人
的普遍认知,亚利安人从欧洲带去印度建立起的婆罗门教就
承袭了这套“四大元素”的概念,然后佛教又延用了这套概念
以便教导当时深受婆罗门教影响的印度人。
We must not wander far and wide, forgetting
The goal of our discourse. Remember this:
The heavens and all below them, earth and her creatures,
All change, and we, part of creation, also
Must suffer change. We are not bodies only,
But wingèd spirits, with the power to enter
Animal forms, house in the bodies of cattle.
Therefore, we should respect those dwelling-places
Which may have given shelter to the spirit
Of fathers, brothers, cousins, human beings
At least, and we should never do them damage,
Not stuff ourselves like the cannibal Thyestes.
An evil habit, impious preparation,
Wicked as human bloodshed, to draw the knife
Across the throat of the calf, and hear its anguish
Cry to deaf ears! And who could slay
The little goat whose cry is like a baby's.
Or eat a bird he has himself just fed?
One might as well do murder; he is only
The shortest step away. Let the bull plow
And let him owe his death to length of days;
Let the sheep give you armor for rough weather,
The she-goats bring full udders to the milking.
Have done with nets and traps and snares and springs,
Bird-lime and forest-beaters, lines and fish-hooks.
Kill, if you must, the beasts that do you harm,
But, even so, let killing be enough;
Let appetite refrain from flesh, take only
A gentler nourishment.”
(扯远了,言归正传。切记:天上天下,
大地以及苍生全都变动不息,而我们身为万物的一部分,
也必须遭遇各种变化。我们不只是肉身,同时也是长了翅膀的
灵魂,有能力投生为动物的形体,住在家畜的身体里。
所以我们应该尊敬这些曾为我们父亲、兄弟、表亲、起码人类
的灵魂提供庇护的居所,怎样都不该伤害牠们,不该像食人魔
提耶斯那样拿牠们来填塞自己。
邪恶的因习,不敬的备膳方式,拿刀划开牛的喉头,对牠的哀鸣
充耳不闻,这跟杀人见血一样缺德!怎么有人狠得下心杀死哀号声
像婴儿一样的山羊。或是吃掉刚亲手喂哺过的小鸟?这跟谋杀已经
没有多大的差别了。就让牛好好耕田,安享天年;让绵羊提供你严寒时的
御寒衣料,让母山羊可以好好供应羊奶。收掉罗网、圈套、陷阱、
不要在树枝涂鸟胶捕鸟、收掉鱼钩。只在有野兽要伤害你的必要时候才
杀掉牠们,即便非杀不可,杀了也就够了;在吃的方面戒掉肉食,
用比较温和的方式获取身体所需的营养。’)
↑“食人魔提耶斯”指的是当年提耶斯与阿楚斯(Artreus)兄弟阋墙,
阿楚斯设陷害提耶斯吃到自己小孩的肉。
所以再看到这类古希腊文学里有与佛教思想类似的东西,别太意外,因为
原本就是传承自上古亚利安人共通的文化脉络,
甚至后来(西元前4世纪~西元前2世纪)
印度的“犍陀罗王朝”就是希腊人跑去印度建立的政权。
留下许多犍陀罗王朝时期的佛教文物,当中佛、菩萨们的衣着全都是
希腊式的长袍、脚下踩着的是希腊鞋。

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