※ 引述《coke5130 ( )》之铭言：
: ※ 引述《huntai (婚带)》之铭言：
: : 原文网址 : https://m5.gs/WHR2Um
: : 此为New Morning Consult于 Feb. 4-5, 2023 对 2,203 美国成年人做的民调
(恕删)
看到了某篇贴文写，MJ(魔术强森)评论道：
https://tinyurl.com/2kmtv2qw
Club shay shay they asked Magic Johnson. If jordan is better then lebron
why did lebron have more points?
“Previously we players in our ERA didn’t chase individual stats,
in sports not just basketball, I mean all sports, the most essential
thing is winning, that’s what really makes a player or a team great.”
""It's a great achievement, to be on top not only in points, also in
assists, rebounds in any statistic is important, but the greatest
satisfaction a player can have is to lift a champion trophy, give that
joy to his team and his city." "
"He believed if Jordan, interested in pursuing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's
record, had everything in his favor, seasons he retired to play
baseball, he would have easily scored 5,000 or 6,000 points,
he was at his prime."
Club shay shay频道主问了魔术，若MJ真的比较强，为何LBJ拿比较多分数呢？
魔术答：我们那个年代不追求个人成绩，不光是篮球，是所有的运动皆然，
运动最本质的就是求胜，夺冠这件事使得个人/球队变得伟大，
得最多分、最多助攻、最多篮板是项伟大的成就，但要站上巅峰更重要的是，
享受夺冠所带来个人、球队甚至城市的满足，
他相信MJ若要追求J霸的纪录一点也不难，就他93年退休的状态正值巅峰期，
再拿个5000或6000分，将是垂手可得。
不过这篇贴文我找不到对应的来源，找到了该频道主与MJ(魔术)的访谈，
https://youtu.be/Wjt6ZJVYQMo，并没有以上这一段，
(我是跳着看，用字幕去捞，并没有)，
不过我认同贴文所说的，球队胜利高于个人成绩。
同时此贴文底下有一则留言，写了落落长一大段MJ跟LBJ的比较，
列出原文，并加翻译及补充提供大家参考：
Now lets begin!
A. Did you know LBJ played in Cleveland for 8 years from 2003 to 2010
and Never win a championship? Until he joined Miami Heat in 2010 but
only win his 1st Championship in 2012 together with 2 all star
teammates 1.Wade and 2.Bosh? They called it the BIG THREE. Then
Rey Allen joined the team the following year together with Anderson
the birdman.
骑士8年未能夺冠，改投热火与全明星Wade, Bosh组成Big 3，
2011 2-4败于小牛
2012 4-1击败雷霆(第一冠)
2013 4-3击败马刺(第二冠)，本季雷枪、鸟人加入
2014 2-4败于马刺，转队
B. Did you know LBJ move back to to Cavs in 2014 but did not win a
championship? He has 3 all star team mates, 1.Kyrie, 2.Love,
and 3.Williams, then they win 2016 championship.
之后返回骑士，队中有全明星Irving, Love,
2015 2-4败于勇士
2016 4-3击败勇士(第三冠)
2017 1-4败于勇士
2018 0-4败于勇士，转队
C. Did you know after returning to cleaveland from 2014 to 2018,
he won 1 championship only for 4 years for cavs then leave Cavs again
to move to Lakers
返回骑士四年仅夺下一冠后，又再转队
D. Did you know LBJ move to Lakers in 2018 to build a Super Team together
with 3 All Star, 1.Davis, 2.Howard, 3.Rondo plus 2 supporting cast with
championship experience in Golden State 1.Cook and 2.Mcgee and then,
they win 2020 championship. Then after, they added 2 additional all star
player, 1.Carmelo and 2.Westbrook
2019 转到湖人，季赛西区第10
2020 4-2击败热火(第四冠)(俗称泡泡冠)，本季AD、DW加入
2021 西区第一轮败于太阳
2022 季赛西区第11
E. Did you know the quote "if you can't beat them, join them" this is what
other fans tells to their star player once they leave and joined to a
championship contender team. Question, who comes to your mind?
打不赢就加入，这句话让你想起谁？(我猜是KD吧)
F. Did you know kareem Abdul-Jabbar holds the no. 1 in total career points
for 33 years, with 6 Championship, 6MVPs and 2FMVPs and 2x Scoring Title
in 21 seasons? And yet some fans did not consider him as the GOAT?
But since his record will be broken due to changes in rules most
especially to a foul and 3pts is a big part of the game. SOME fans
thinked, if LBJ broke the record of KAJ he will become a GOAT?
How ironic to tell LBJ is the GOAT if he is behind 2 more championship
and MVPs to Kareem and 1 scoring title. Please respect Kareems Legacy.
J霸的得分王纪录高悬33年，
21年生涯握有6冠、6次MVP、2次FMVP，2次得分王，仍不被认为是GOAT？
LBJ在即将超越纪录时
生涯20年握有4冠、4次MVP，4次FMVP，1次得分王，
特别是联盟改变犯规标准及三分球当道之下，
会认为当他能超越总得分就是GOAT？请尊重J霸的传奇生涯
G. Now since GOAT is being discussed by SOME LBJ fans, lets compare his
achievements to other legends. Don't get me wrong, LBJ is a good player
and I agree that he is the greatest of this ERA, but not the greatest
of ALL time.
Now please see data below and let the NBA Organization, NBA Players,
NBA Legends and True NBA Fans to decide.
作者同意LBJ是当代最伟大的球星，但要称作GOAT，Greatest of All Time，
言之过早。列出数据让各方公评
H. & Did you know LBJ is the alpha dog for team USA in Fiba World
Championship in 2006? But they ended 3rd place only.
Then the following year Kobe joined the group, and then they win
the Gold Medal. But wait before I forgot. Carmelo Anthony is the
leading scorer for US basketball team. Again Carmelo Anthony.
LBJ是2006年FIBA世界杯国家队的王牌但他们最终未能夺冠仅获得第三名，
接着KOBE为了雪耻加入国家队帮助美国在2008夺回奥运金牌，
(Netflix有纪录片The Redeem Team)，当时队中得分王是甜瓜
I. Did you know Jordan leads the amateur team to 8-0 record against NBA
All Star? How about LBJ? Did he play for amateur or did he joined to
other all star player?
MJ带领1984 TEAM USA国家队击败NBA，战绩是8-0，
TEAM USA：MJ, Ewing, Mullin, Perkins,
TEAM NBA ALL Star: Bird, Magic, McHale, Parish, Thomas,
LBJ在业余队的成绩呢？(应该是没有，18岁就进NBA了)
J. Do you know lebron has 134 Triple Double? Compare to MJ of 28?
But did he win? Did the triple double record can bring a team to a
championship? Lets compare Russel Westbrook 210 Triple Double,
so Russ is better than Lebron? ofcourse not. Diba?
"LONGEVITY" gives LBJ more points. But shall we see how many
accomplishment he have compare to other legends. REMEMBER he played
more seasons & still going, and he did not went to college. Its like
a raffle, the more entries you have the more chance of winning.
LBJ有134次大三元，MJ仅28次，但他赢了吗？大三元纪录能带领球队夺冠吗？
西河有210次大三元，所以能推论西河比LBJ更棒吗？当然不是
(Diba看不懂啥意思)
"长寿"让他取得更多分，但该比较看看他整体的成绩，而且他高中就直接打NBA，
并未进大学，比喻来说，就像抽奖，参与机会越多，得奖机会越高。
以下是该留言列出的MJ 对 LBJ的比较，就简单翻译就好了
Player MJ / LBJ
Seasons Played 生涯赛季 15 / 20*现役
Top Points 总得分排名 5th / 1st
Top Assist 总助攻排名 - / 6th
Top Turnovers 总失误排名 - / 1st
Top Rebounds 总篮板排名 - / -
Top Blocks 总阻攻排名 - / -
Top Steak 总抄截排名 3rd / -
Rookie of the year 年度最佳新秀 1 / 1
DPOY 最佳防守球员 1 / -
All Star Teammates to win Chip 1 / 8 (全明星队友)
All Star Appearances 全明星次数 14 / 18
NBA All Stars MVPs 全明星MVP 3 / 3
All NBA 1st Team 年度第一队 10 / 13
All NBA Defensive 1st Team 9 / 5 (年度防守第一队)
NBA Scoring Title 年度得分王 10 / 1
NBA Steal Leader 年度抄截王 3 / -
Completed/played 82 games 82场全勤 9 / 1
Slam dunk Champion 灌篮大赛冠军 2 / -
30+ points made 得分30+场次 562 / 523
40+ points made 得分40+场次 173 / 71
50+ points made 得分50+场次 31 / 14
60+ points made 得分60+场次 5 / 1
Over All PPG 生涯场均 30.1% / 27.2%
Best Stats in a Single Game
Pts-Reb-Ast-Stl-Blk-To 单场最佳成绩
69-18-6 -4-1-2 / 61-7-4-0-0-2
How to prevent best player? Jordan Rule/ - 指特别设计针对战术
How to get a foul? Attack inside / Flop 这我不太确定意指？
Player Efficiency Rating (PER) 1st / 2nd 效率值
Games played to reach 30k pts 969 / 1,107 3万分场数
Finals Win 24 / 22 总冠军系列胜场数
Finals Loss 11 / 33 总冠军系列败场数
Finals Swept 0 / 2 总冠军系列被0-4
Championship 6 / 4 总冠军数
Finals MVPs 6 / 4 总冠军MVP
Regular Season MVPs 5 / 4 季赛MVP
3 Peat 2 / - 三连霸
Best team record 72-10 / 66-15 季赛最佳战绩
Went to College YES / NO 上过大学？
College Championship 3 / - NCAA冠军
College Player of the Year 2 / - NCAA年度球员
Olympics Gold 2 / 2 奥运金牌
Has been lost in Olympics No / 3rd 奥运未夺冠
Has been lost in Fiba No / 3rd FIBA未夺冠
Early Retirement YES / - 早退休？
No. of Retirement 2 / - 退休次数
Trophy named after him MJ MVP / - 以其为名的奖项
Space Jam Movie Earnings 250M / 163M 电影票房
Space Jam Merch Sales 1B / - 看不懂
Highest NBA Player shoe sales 5B / 340M 球鞋销量
Highest Sneaker Sales Jordans / -
Collectible Shoes Jordans / -
Collaboration Shoes Jordans / -
ESPN Poll, fans vote, 73% / 27% EPSN球迷投票
ESPN Poll, millenial voting 2 is to 1 / 1 is to 2 看不懂
Presidential Medal of Fredom 1 / - 总统自由勋章
对美国国家安全或利益、世界和平、文化或其他重要公共或私人事业，
作出特别杰出之贡献(这个将来LBJ会不会得，还不知道所以保留)
No. 23 retired by Chicago Bulls / - 公牛退役乔丹23号球衣
No. 23 retired by Miami Heat (MJ) / - 热火退役乔丹23号球衣
(注：https://tinyurl.com/2mwpfqcu)
No. 23 retired by North Carolina / - 北卡退役乔丹23号球衣
底下的我就不翻了，比较主观一点
Help the league to become global / -
Help Nike to become empire / -
Statistic & Analytics vs Total Career Points
Legacy vs Longevity
When you're good at something, you tell everyone
(self proclaimed)
Vs
When you're great at something, they tell you
(greatness never claimed he is the GOAT)
补充：Jordan Rules 及出场纪录
https://youtu.be/NLv2F33snCE
公牛1984选进MJ，(前三年都无缘季后赛)
1984-85 ECF1 1-3 公鹿，
1985-86 ECF1 0-3 塞提，本季重伤仅出赛18场
1986-87 ECF1 0-3 塞提，G2 63分仍是季后赛单场最高得分纪录(TOP 10 MJ有4次)
1987-88 ECS 1-4 活塞，(第一轮3-2骑士，G5 The Shot绝杀)
1988-89 ECF 2-4 活塞
1989-90 ECF 3-4 活塞
1990-91 ECF 4-0 活塞，MJ靠着重训提高与活塞的对抗性，克服了Jordan Rules
挺进总冠并开启了第一次的三连霸，而不是靠转队~~笑
除第一年外，第二、三年季后赛止步的对手塞提是总冠、西冠
第四-七年对手活塞是西冠及总冠*2，第七年公牛总冠
说公牛坐镇东区，辗压西区群雄应该不为过，联盟宰制力无误，
骑士2003选进LBJ
2003-04 Playoffs X
2004-05 Playoffs X
2005-06 ECS 3-4 活塞 (大班、枪西)，活塞西冠止步
2006-07 Finals 0-4 马刺 (马刺三剑客)，马刺总冠
2007-08 ECS 3-4 塞提 (塞提GAP)，塞提总冠
2008-09 ECF 2-4 魔术 (DW单核)，魔术西冠
2009-10 ECS 2-4 塞提 (GAP)，塞提西冠
2010 转队
虽论时代进步球员素质比较强，但是队友应该也有提升，
与同区对抗的宰制力显然就相形失色了。
补充：出场纪录
MJ 1984新秀，1985重伤，1993退休，1994复出，1998退休，2001复出,2003退休
82,18,82,82,81,82,82,80,78,-,17,82,82,82,-,-,-,-,60,82
LBJ 2003新秀,2010转热火，2014转骑士，2018转湖人
79,80,79,78,75,81,76,79,62,76,77,69,76,74,*82,55,67,45,56,44现役球季进行中)
*本季全勤
结论：
LBJ仍现役，能创造那些纪录还在追加中，
真的要比Greatest of his ERA，两人应该都当之无愧，
真的要比Greatest of All Time，这摊开来，还是不要比了。
我是认为LBJ应该在很早就打定主意，要打长寿型的生涯了