Re: [新闻] 遭指涉中国器官买卖 柯P否认

楼主: darren8221 (鲶鱼)   2014-10-27 22:13:43
全段翻译,文长,拙劣文笔献丑一下。
大意是这样的:
1. 作者访问柯文哲有关活摘器官的事,柯文哲说有。
2. 作者脑补了超大一段(至少这段没有根据)
(从“我们访问他的几年前”一直到“……良心发现和自我保护开始”一整串)
3. 柯文哲秀了器官移植系统,作者说这系统很棒,但是中国不要,原因你知道的。
4. https://www.facebook.com/grandlaw.wt/posts/860670837324892
这段我没有翻,作者盛赞柯文哲(虽然作者话唬烂很大)
9 ORGANS OF THE STATE 器官的国度
There's a set moment in an interview when both sides feel out each other's
intentions, and initially, I thought I was the problem.
一开始我们都在猜测对方的目的,我觉得那应该是我的问题。
I wasn't quite ready to explain to Dr. Ko Wen-je — a senior surgeon at
National Taiwan University Hospital—that Leeshai had obtained his name
through the Taiwanese medical grapevine by asking for someone who might
know something about mainland transplants...in short, that our sitting
down together was an absurd long shot.1
我其实没准备好要跟柯文哲(台大医院的外科医师)说,理善(音)是从台湾的
医学情报网里某个可能知道中国器官移植的人那边,拿到他的名字的。
总之,我们花了莫名其妙地久才坐下来谈论这件事。
Nothing about Dr. Ko's demeanor, his urbane manner, even the sophistication
of his gentle handshake suggested mainland rigidity or some sort of prejudice,
but the air felt distinctly ominous, as if a thunderstorm was imminent.
柯文哲的举止、文雅的礼仪和轻柔的握手都看不出有任何关于中国大陆的刻板印象或
偏见。但整体气氛令人感到不详,就像暴风雨前要来一样。
※文中用 mainland, 这边就翻中国大陆或大陆。
It didn't help that both of us — I'm a big guy and Ko's unusually tall —
were perched on two flimsy plastic chairs inside a cramped little office,
close enough to smell each other's sweat. I blandly opened by telling Dr. Ko
that I was interested in any information he might be able to provide about
organ harvesting in the mainland. Dr. Ko dismissed my quest as futile.
就算我跟柯文哲都很高,我们坐在这狭窄办公室的两张破烂塑胶椅子上,
彼此接近得都能闻到对方的汗味,这一点用都没有。
我轻轻地开启话题,告诉柯文哲我对他所能提供任何有关大陆器官移植的资讯有兴趣。
柯文哲说我问这问题一点用都没有。
With impatient authority, Ko laid down all the confining features:
There is no centralized database of organ donors in China. Instead, doctors
use an informal eBay-style system because it's an entrepreneurial business
that operates in a gray market.
柯文哲不耐烦又权威地把阻碍这些资讯的特征讲过一遍:
中国没有器官捐赠的中央数据库。中国的医生用的是不太正式的像拍卖网站的系统。
那是一家企业在经营的灰色市场。
Hospital staffers use their personal connections to acquire donors and
recipients alike. Advertising for organ transplants appears not only on
the web (bait for foreigners, and I'd seen some of those sites) but also
at the street level for potential Chinese patrons — stickers in phone
booths, ads in little trade newspapers, flyers on bulletin boards.
The similarity to escort services ran through my mind.
医院的职员利用个人关系来取得器官捐赠者和领受者。而关于器官移植的广告出现在
网络上(用以钓取外国人,我看过),也出现在街头钓那些中国顾客,例如说,话亭
、小报纸里面的小广告,公告栏上的传单之类的。
我脑中也闪过了那些运送器官的行业会做的事情。
Perhaps a minute flicker of disgust crossed my face. Perhaps not.
Either way, Dr. Ko appeared to take the silence as a challenge,
and his voice rose slightly. "You really don't understand, do you?
You can do whatever you want in China. Cut someone up. Cut their dick off
if you like." He showed his teeth as he presented me with a smile that
wasn't pleasant. This was unsettling.
也许我的表情闪过一丝恶心,也许没有。无论如何,柯文哲似乎把这当作我在质疑他。
他稍微抬高声音说,“你真的不知道?在中国,只要你想,什么事都可以做。
切掉一个人,把他阉了,如果你想要的话。”他微笑,微笑带着不悦。这让人很不安。
Yet my real fear was not that he would call me a stupid foreigner again
but that he would shut down the interview. I had no choice but to be
perfectly candid: "Look, I am not from a government agency. I can't make
you talk about this. I'm just a writer. I have no power to prosecute you
or cause trouble for your practice. And I know that you care about your
patients. By going to the mainland for transplants, you are saving lives."
不过我怕的不是他又说我笨,我怕他中止这场面谈。我只好坦承:“我跟你说,
我不是从政府机构来的,我不能强迫你说这些,我只是个作家。我没办法迫害你
或是让你的业务惹上什么麻烦。我知道你很照顾你的病人,你如果有去中国进行移植,
你是在救人。”
Leeshai jumped in: "I've just come from Israel. The government has banned
organ tourism to China because there is no way of determining whether an
organ comes from a legally executed criminal or a prisoner of conscience."
理善接着说:“我刚从以色列回来,他们禁止以找寻器官的名义前往中国,因为
他们没有办法知道这些器官来自于合法处死的刑犯或是良心犯。”
"Do you want that to happen here?" I added. "It will, if it's not cleaned
up.... So is it true? Aren't prisoners of conscience — Falun Gong, perhaps
others, being harvested?"
“你希望这些发生在这里(台湾)吗?”我补充道。“如果没整顿好,这会发生的……
所以这是真的吗?那些良善的人,法轮功的人,或者其他的,都被活摘器官?”
What happened next was something I thought only occurred in the movies.
Ko's body seemed to simply retract, his jaw, his shoulders collapsing.
His eyes gazing at the emptiness of the wall, he fell into a barely
audible hiss. "Yes," Dr. Ko said, "Yes, they are doing that. Yes, it's true."2
接着我似乎看到了电影场景。柯文哲似乎缩回了身体,下巴和肩膀垮了下来。
他凝视著空无一物的墙壁,声音只剩下微弱几乎不可闻的嘶嘶声。
他说:“对,他们正在做那些事情,那是真的。”
(以下都是作者所言,柯文哲一个访问的字都没讲)
A few years before we showed up at his office, Dr. Ko began thinking about
going to the mainland to acquire human organs.3
我们访问他的几年前,柯文哲开始想要到中国获得医疗用器官。
It wasn't a pleasant decision; he was a conscientious and careful surgeon,
not a gambler. But the waiting period for a liver or even a kidney in Taiwan
could be as long as two or three years. Time enough for many of his elderly
patients to simply waste away. And if Chinese hospitals could perform the
soup-to-nuts services they claimed on the web — donor to order, tissue
match, surgery, observation, drug therapy, recovery — patients who could
barely be loaded onto a plane might come back as human beings who had
successfully digested their airline meal, weren't sure they actually
needed the wheelchair, and tearfully hugged their grandchildren.
那绝对是个痛苦的决定。他是个本着良心又思考缜密的外科医生,而非一介赌徒。
然而在台湾等待肝脏或肾脏移植的时间可能长达两三年,他的病患只能拖时间。
如果中国医院能够进行这种一条龙式的医疗(选择捐赠者、组织比对、手术、观察、
药物治疗以及康复),也许几乎撑不了去程飞机的患者能吃著回程的飞机餐,
哭着抱自己的孙子,连需不需要做轮椅都可以再想想。
Taiwan was a death sentence: mainland Chinese hospitals were blatantly
advertising a tissue-matched organ within a week or perhaps two.
He didn't particularly want to look behind the mainland curtain, that's all.
台湾的环境(对患者来说)就是宣判死刑。中国医院公然广告著两周可换器官的事蹟。
他(柯文哲)真的不是很想管背后发生的事情,就这样。
Yes, you could do anything you liked in China. And castration wasn't all
that different from what he was trying to do; it was common knowledge that
the organs were being taken from executed prisoners on death row. So if his
job was to ride his fragile patients into the wild, wild east and bring them
back alive, okay, but even that wasn't certain; the criminal lifestyle led to
a high probability of drug use or promiscuous sex. Hepatitis, just for
starters, was rampant. Labor camp led to stress and malnutrition. Any, or
perhaps all, of these medical histories would now be given a second life in
his patients' bodies. And what was the recourse if something went wrong in
this highly competitive business fought out in a legal no-man's land?
在中国,真的想做什么就做什么。阉割其实也跟他(柯文哲)在做的事情没差多少。
死囚牢房的犯人被处决之后,器官被捐赠出去这件事情算是常识了。
所以如果他的工作就是将病人移动到远方,让他正常活着回来,那也就算了,
偏偏这些囚犯以前过的生活常常是吸毒,又关系复杂、放荡。
肝炎只是第一个要考虑的问题,这种问题非常猖獗。而劳役又带来压力和营养不良。
这些器官要是移植到他的病患体内,这些特质也会伴随着。
要是出了什么差错,在这没法制的国家,要怎么求偿?
Nor were his patients rich. Taiwan was still an emerging tiger;
his patients had lived interesting lives to be sure, but modest ones.
A glance at the web established the foreigner price of $ 62,000 (US) for a
kidney. Because the Chinese regarded the Taiwanese as slick foreigners
wearing a Chinese mask, that would be his price, too. Yet native Chinese
were paying half that or even less.4 This injustice gnawed at him.
Somehow, where so many Taiwanese businessmen before him had failed,
Dr. Ko would have to convince the mainland doctors he was not a foreign
devil but a brother.
他的病患并不富有。台湾还是个新兴市场,他的病患生活得还可以,但也就是平凡度日。
网络上,对外国人,肾脏的售价是 62,000 美金,而因为中国认为台湾是戴着中国
面具的外国人,台湾人也该付这个价钱。不过中国人就只需要负一半以下的价格。
这种不公平让柯文哲很困扰。因为许多台湾商人先前的失败,柯文哲必须要说服
中国医师,说他并非洋鬼子,而是兄弟。
Dr. Ko went to China and meticulously worked through the checklist of
intimacy with his medical colleagues: The go-to-hell banquet. The karaoke bar. The cognac followed by
the Mao-Tai. The subtle flattery and the jokes about his accent. And when the
ritual was truly finished, and everyone had sobered up, the Chinese surgeons
summoned him. You are one of us. You are a brother. So we will give you the
family price. But we are going to do more for you than that. We noted your
worries and concerns about organ quality. And we trust your discretion. So
you will have no worries for your patients. They will receive nothing but the
best: all the organs will come from Falun Gong. These people may be a little
fanatical, but you know? They don't drink. They don't smoke. Many of them are
young, and they all practice healthy Chinese qigong. Soon your patients —
they will be young and healthy, too.
柯文哲到了中国,认真仔细地与医界同僚搏感情:要命的盛筵、卡拉OK,茅台酒。
微妙的阿谀和口音的揶揄。这些仪式结束,大家清醒之后,中国的外科医师召他来,说,
你是我们的一份子,你是哥儿们,我们给你友情价。当然我们发现你很注重器官品质,
不用担心,你的病人会得到最好的器官,捐赠者都是法轮功人,虽然他们有点狂热,
但他们不菸不酒,还练气功呢,你的病患很快就会痊愈。
And Dr. Ko smiled and thanked them politely, and the process began.
But at the point of victory, Ko had felt no relief, only something
that gnawed at him far worse than before.
柯文哲微笑礼谢,而程序(?)就开始了。不过就在这看似成功的当下,
柯文哲不觉得轻松,反而良心不安。
Something he could not speak of. Even as he set up appointments for his
patients on the mainland, Dr. Ko kept thinking that there must be a way
to rationalize the system, to apply some oversight, some sort of technical fix.
他说不出来的感觉。就算他安排著病患前往大陆,他一直在想一定有些方法可以
整理、监督整个体制,用某些技术整顿。
Now that the mainland doctors had blood on their hands there was no obvious
path to medical reform. An open discussion would require dredging up the past.
The party would never allow the slaughter of prisoners of conscience to be
revealed to the world—in fact, his Chinese surgeon friends had already let
him know discreetly that the harvesting of Falun Gong would be put on hold as
the Olympics approached. But don't worry, they reassured him, when the
Olympics are over it will start up again!
大陆医生的手上沾满著血腥,而且没有显而易见的医疗改革的道路。
要对这一块公开讨论,会需要把过去的问题扒梳过一次,
党不会让这种杀良心犯的事情公诸于世的。
其实,柯文哲的医疗同僚朋友也告诉他,活摘器官这件事情因为奥运举办会暂时停止。
不过反正奥运结束之后就会重新开始,也没什么好担心的。
Perhaps the way forward was to use that brief hiatus as an opening to
implement good bureaucratic hygiene, something to raise the cost of keeping
secrets? There was plenty of talk about consent forms — making the prisoner
sign a release donating his or her organ to the nation "as a final penance"
or something like that. But the surgeon knew the labor-camp administrators
could get anyone to sign anything. Reform had to start with the doctors'
conscience and sense of self-preservation.
说不定未来的道路是用这些短暂的空隙来实现好的官场透明度,让隐瞒祕密的成本上升?
关于器官捐赠同意书(让死囚签署,让他们捐赠器官作为“最后的赎罪”)的讨论早已
甚嚣尘上。不过他们这些医生也都知道劳教所的管理员能逼他们签任何东西。
医改需要从医生的良心发现和自我保护开始。
(一直到这里柯文哲还是一个字都没讲,都作者在讲)
On his own time, Dr. Ko labored to create a national database system,
a mandatory electronic form just for the surgeon. For every organ acquired,
the doctor would have to fill in details on individual donor health,
medical background, blood type, address, arrest record, everything.
柯文哲用自己的私人时间,建立了强制性的全国器官移植系统。对于每次器官移植,
医生都必须详细填写捐赠者的健康状况、医疗背景、血型、地址、犯罪纪录和一切细节。
Dr. Ko moved us over to his desktop computer, and we looked it over.
It was beautiful actually — simple, clear, mainland-user friendly —
something even a barefoot doctor could use. Maybe he could even have sold
the system to the Chinese medical establishment, even received some sort of
compensation, and yet — that gnaw again — even if the mainland doctors
adopted the system, "you would only remove 95 percent of the problem,"
Ko said, shaking his head.
柯文哲带着我们到他的电脑旁看这个系统。很漂亮的系统,简单明了,对大陆的用户也
很友善,连刚上手的医师也能用。说不定他本来能把这系统卖去中国的,还能拿到
一些补偿。不过就算中国的医生真的用了这些系统,“还是只能解决 95 % 的问题。”
柯文哲摇著头说。
Anyway, they rejected it.
不过,无论如何,中国方面拒绝了这套系统。
It was obvious in retrospect that it was okay for the mainland doctors to
run a sort of informal auction for organ trading, done through e-mails and
discrete online user groups, but Ko's forms would either cut out too many
donors from the system, create too much of a level playing field, or perhaps
simply leave too much of an electronic trail. It was too late in the day,
and it was sickening; the rejection was passed on to Dr. Ko with the respect
you give to a distant cousin who doesn't quite get it.
现在回想起来,很明显地,中国医生觉得不要太正式地拍卖器官,用 email 和网络
帐户来处理,是没什么问题的。不过柯文哲的系统要嘛会切掉太多捐赠者的器官,
要嘛会创造出公平的环境,说不定还会留下太多电子资料。
这件事情为时已晚,且令人作呕,柯文哲被拒绝了,就像尊重著远房亲戚,
对方却不明白。
Dr. Ko was whispering now: "But something should be done. Something should
be done." A year or so after the database was rejected, Dr. Ko gave an
anonymous interview to an American writer—well, we thought it was
anonymous anyway—and the surgeon was banned from the mainland.5
柯文著喃喃自语地说:“这本来就该做,本来就该做的。”
大概在他的系统被拒绝一年之后,
柯文哲由一位美国作家匿名(好吧至少我们这样想)访问,于是,他被禁止入境中国。
作者: CharleneTsai (给他200块去吃麦当劳啦)   2014-10-27 22:17:00
中间那段根本就是写小说嘛 = =
作者: goodday362 (dark)   2014-10-27 22:17:00
辛苦了
作者: patato2 (㊣裁判杀手熊㊣)   2014-10-27 22:17:00
小说无误
作者: happinessum (バナージ・リンクス)   2014-10-27 22:17:00
所以要嘛记者英文程度很烂 要嘛就是故意装看不懂
作者: ZC (***********************)   2014-10-27 22:18:00
推一个!
作者: chyou2003 (Smelly Cat ^^)   2014-10-27 22:18:00
还是那个童什么的律师看到影就开枪?
作者: Aoife (Aoife)   2014-10-27 22:20:00
他们之间的英文沟通可能有点问题
作者: kid725 (凯道基德)   2014-10-27 22:22:00
这个作者很明显根本就用有色眼光看柯文哲
作者: yuching726   2014-10-27 22:23:00
简单地讲,和大陆医生搏感情谈买卖那一段可能是虚构的
作者: kid725 (凯道基德)   2014-10-27 22:23:00
用了很多非主观的方式来抹柯文哲说他有罪恶感及不耐烦
作者: lianhua (墨心镜情)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
推 去看那个姓童的脸书 翻的语法超不通顺还断章取义
楼主: darren8221 (鲶鱼)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
我倒觉得这很正常,以前的柯文哲就这个形象 XD"
作者: Yanrei (大小姐萬歲!)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
这作者自己脑内补完的能力非常的强大……访问的内容到底说
作者: maelbex (Brother)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
所以是个譁众取宠的垃圾作者?
作者: scratch01 (......)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
就抹黑无极限
作者: Alubasong (Moving Forward)   2014-10-27 22:24:00
不可能有医生知道器官是法轮功的还安排这些事情吧
作者: Castor (满载一船星辉)   2014-10-27 22:25:00
辛苦了~我刚刚还在想找原文看~原作用了很多主观的描述
作者: wakaul (日京一自八)   2014-10-27 22:26:00
乡民怎么可以反大纪元? 这作者支持法轮功耶!!!怎可乱嘘?? 大逆不道
作者: Castor (满载一船星辉)   2014-10-27 22:26:00
像是创作而不是采访报导,不过他并没有暗称柯买卖器官
作者: higreater (觉醒)   2014-10-27 22:27:00
中间那段太夸张 再加上童本来就看柯不对眼…呵呵
作者: Castor (满载一船星辉)   2014-10-27 22:27:00
只是说他知情,但想要建立一个公平的制度
作者: higreater (觉醒)   2014-10-27 22:29:00
简单说 不是童英文太烂就是他刻意想婊柯啦!还讲柯承认买卖器官哩!啧啧!
作者: maelbex (Brother)   2014-10-27 22:29:00
补推
作者: plsear (普西儿)   2014-10-27 22:31:00
柯p是台湾医生 跟他有什么关系?! 谢翻译
作者: doun (噜啦噜啦勒)   2014-10-27 22:32:00
感谢翻译!
作者: victoryman (圣立祐 彭马利哥)   2014-10-27 22:33:00
感谢翻译!
作者: rockyue (...)   2014-10-27 22:35:00
可见柯英文真的不错 XD
作者: sunnyC (为什么这么好笑)   2014-10-27 22:39:00
帮高调
作者: Yuwuen (游玩)   2014-10-27 22:40:00
这到底是在写什么啊XDDDDD 到底有没有访问哩XDDDDDDDDDD
作者: kirkkirkkk (小肯)   2014-10-27 22:41:00
高调推
作者: imlkw (OH~~~~)   2014-10-27 22:45:00
这外国记者在写小说喔. 妈的 柯文哲没讲的话乱扣在人家头上
作者: bibigaga (毕毕尬尬)   2014-10-27 22:47:00
那个姓童的就法轮功阿 利用柯p的名气拉他下水
作者: imlkw (OH~~~~)   2014-10-27 22:48:00
妈的,亚斯伯格症这种不闇社交的人会跟人搏感情, 记者智障吗
作者: germing   2014-10-27 22:50:00
= =遗憾 至少轮子在港学运期间报导跟港媒蛮接近的 而且事件ㄧ开始就率先分析出梁是鹰派 后来港媒也跟进 但是不是江派就不晓得 这些民运社团本身就很复杂 我也不知该说啥 = = 只好回去多看美国之音
作者: imlkw (OH~~~~)   2014-10-27 22:54:00
光看搏感情这段就知道作者在幻想.柯文哲这种社交白痴办不到
作者: g8330330 (负债700万)   2014-10-27 22:57:00
辛苦了 谁在救人谁在黑心大家都很清楚我姑姑也是去中国换肾 一颗100万台湾排不到 去大陆花钱就有
作者: germing   2014-10-27 23:02:00
美国之音对中共内斗的分析又有点保守 遗憾
作者: eldar (0.0)   2014-10-27 23:15:00
真的像在写小说,一个访谈提一堆不重要的细节。然后对柯又先入为主,加一堆脑补
作者: RonaldPan (The Lovely Bones)   2014-10-27 23:19:00
作者: victoryman (圣立祐 彭马利哥)   2014-10-27 23:37:00
故事真好 翻译也超好的 超好的 我还连看了两次
作者: Xavier114 (不要不要不要~~~)   2014-10-27 23:56:00
推!!

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