[闲聊] GOT S08 哲学家齐泽克的评论

楼主: Victor70412 (挖挖鼻子没事干)   2019-05-22 17:29:38
https://ind.pn/2M3qYIj
Game of Thrones tapped into fears of revolution and political women – and lef
t us no better off than before
So justice prevailed – but what kind of justice?
The last season of the Game of Thrones has prompted public outcry and culminat
ed in a petition (signed by almost 1 million outraged viewers) to disqualify t
he entire season and re-shoot a new one. The ferocity of the debate is in itse
lf a proof that the ideological stakes must be high.
The dissatisfaction turned on a couple of points: bad scenario (under the pres
sure to quickly end the series, the complexity of the narrative was simplified
), bad psychology (Daenerys’ turn to “Mad Queen” was not justified by her c
haracter development), etc.
One of the few intelligent voices in the debate was that of the author Stephen
King who noted that dissatisfaction was not generated by the bad ending but t
he fact of the ending itself. In our epoch of series which in principle could
go on indefinitely, the idea of narrative closure becomes intolerable.
It is true that, in the series’ swift denouement, a strange logic takes over,
a logic that does not violate credible psychology but rather the narrative pr
esuppositions of a TV series. In the last season, it is simply the preparation
for a battle, mourning and destruction after the battle, and of the battler i
tself in all its meaninglessness – much more realistic for me than the usual
gothic melodramatic plots.
Season eight stages three consecutive struggles. The first one is between huma
nity and its inhuman “Others” (the Night Army from the North led by the Nigh
t King); between the two main groups of humans (the evil Lannisters and the co
alition against them led by Daenerys and Starks); and the inner conflict betwe
en Daenerys and the Starks.
This is why the battles in season eight follow a logical path from an external
opposition to the inner split: the defeat of the inhuman Night Army, the defe
at of Lannisters and the destruction of King’s Landing; the last struggle bet
ween the Starks and Daenerys – ultimately between traditional “good” nobili
ty (Starks) faithfully protecting their subjects from bad tyrants, and Daenery
s as a new type of a strong leader, a kind of progressive bonapartist acting o
n behalf of the underprivileged.
The stakes in the final conflict are thus: should the revolt against tyranny b
e just a fight for the return of the old kinder version of the same hierarchic
al order, or should it develop into the search for a new order that is needed?
The finale combines the rejection of a radical change with an old anti-feminis
t motif at work in Wagner. For Wagner, there is nothing more disgusting than a
woman who intervenes in political life, driven by the desire for power. In co
ntrast to male ambition, a woman wants power in order to promote her own narro
w family interests or, even worse, her personal caprice, incapable as she is o
f perceiving the universal dimension of state politics.
The same femininity which, within the close circle of family life, is the powe
r of protective love, turns into obscene frenzy when displayed at the level of
public and state affairs. Recall the lowest point in the dialogue of Game of
Thrones when Daenerys tells Jon that if he cannot love her as a queen then fea
r should reign – the embarrassing, vulgar motif of a sexually unsatisfied wom
an who explodes into destructive fury.
But – let’s bite our sour apple now – what about Daenerys’ murderous outbu
rsts? Can the ruthless killing of the thousands of ordinary people in King’s
Landing really be justified as a necessary step to universal freedom? At this
point, we should remember that the scenario was written by two men.
Daenerys as the Mad Queen is strictly a male fantasy, so the critics were righ
t when they pointed out that her descent into madness was psychologically not
justified. The view of Daenerys with mad-furious expression flying on a dragon
and burning houses and people expresses patriarchal ideology with its fear of
a strong political woman.
The final destiny of the leading women in Game of Thrones fits these coordinat
es. Even if the good Daenerys wins and destroys the bad Cersei, power corrupts
her. Arya (who saved them all by single-handedly killing the Night King) also
disappears, sailing to the West of the West (as if to colonise America).
The one who remains (as the queen of the autonomous kingdom of the North) is S
ansa, a type of women beloved by today’s capitalism: she combines feminine so
ftness and understanding with a good dose of intrigue, and thus fully fits the
new power relations. This marginalisation of women is a key moment of the gen
eral liberal-conservative lesson of the finale: revolutions have to go wrong,
they bring new tyranny, or, as Jon put it to Daenerys:
“The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Ma
ybe that helps them believe that you can make other impossible things happen:
build a world that’s different from the shit one they’ve always known. But i
f you use dragons to melt castles and burn cities, you’re no different.”
Consequently, Jon kills out of love (saving the cursed woman from herself, as
the old male-chauvinist formula says) the only social agent in the series who
really fought for something new, for a new world that would put an end to old
injustices.
So justice prevailed – but what kind of justice? The new king is Bran: crippl
ed, all-knowing, who wants nothing – with the evocation of the insipid wisdom
that the best rulers are those who do not want power. A dismissive laughter t
hat ensues when one of the new elite proposes a more democratic selection of t
he king tells it all.
And one cannot help but note that those faithful to Daenerys to the end are mo
re diverse – her military commander is black – while the new rulers are clea
rly white Nordic. The radical queen who wanted more freedom for everyone irres
pective of their social standing and race is eliminated, things are brought ba
ck to normal.
齐泽克的批评集中于两点:
自由保守主义——这群人总是认为想要用革命推翻暴君必然只会产生暴君,但显然GOT推翻
丹妮莉丝之后选出了一个,全知、无权力欲的跛子,还是个白人,而这正符合现代人所要
的,而当丹妮莉丝的军队里显然更多元自由,好比有黑人指挥官时,这状况一旦被推翻,
所有事情又回到了原来的状态。但难道革命只有这条路吗?革命不是为了寻找一个时代的
新秩序吗?
厌女的——我们不能忽略写这个剧本的是两个男性,而显然他们透露出一种对于显露政治
欲望女人的厌恶,丹妮莉丝的观点充满了疯狂歇斯底里,驾驭龙和焚烧房屋和人民,表达
了父权意识形态,害怕强大的政治女性。丹妮莉丝在掌权之后,毫无剧情内的发展理由(
说书里面有的这显然不是什么好借口)就发狂,甚至最后由囧来拯救疯掉的女王——就好
像那些老式沙文主义的寓言里面的结局,一刀了结夜王的艾利亚也不可以到政治中心,她
必须要离开,所以她选择远行,不然就会危害到男性在政治中的地位。
结语:D&D出来受死吧。
作者: luvfilm (luvfilm)   2019-05-22 17:43:00
齐泽克用哲学评论电影/小说/影集真的一绝 我没跟GOT但看
作者: shyuwu (El Cid)   2019-05-22 17:43:00
老实说,如果灰虫子能在丹妮死后控制住那群调性和无垢者完全相反的多斯拉克,那他的能力其实是相当强的
作者: mysmalllamb (小羊)   2019-05-22 17:44:00
说得好!其实我觉得这样的剧情发展再现我们这丑陋的现世,并无不可;只是剧情呈现上对这样的发展带有什么立场、又用什么视角去观看它并引起观众的观感,那可以有截然不同的选择。
作者: luvfilm (luvfilm)   2019-05-22 17:44:00
这篇依然会心一笑 他看得很真 真到像在酸人 XD
作者: Acinonyx (跟月亮干杯!)   2019-05-22 17:46:00
牵扯到仇女…很无言 dnd罪状很多 但不包括这个现在是墙倒众人推 给他们安什么罪名没人会抗议反例:三傻 老玫瑰
作者: lyt40   2019-05-22 17:56:00
赞成仇女+1!安排珊莎的强暴戏,说那是女性成长的过程(吐血)
作者: Hanbor ( )   2019-06-20 03:22:00
事实上就是他成功了 不过很多案例太牵强插图本来就是翻画 连把图面精致化都不行有点夸张讲的好像是隔壁卖鲁肉饭肉燥饭 人家就不能卖一样是有点投机取巧 不过插画家还是设计这行业 只能这样生存
作者: jerry8432 (杰利茅斯)   2019-05-22 18:17:00
推 齐泽克 看他电爆龙虾博士真的很爽
作者: celya6223 (Celia)   2019-05-22 18:18:00
推推
作者: claudia0212 (ㄗㄏ爱徒single)   2019-05-22 18:20:00
作者: Grrr (蝙蝠俠的幫手)   2019-05-22 18:28:00
他的观察很正确
作者: smonke (小象邦邦...)   2019-05-22 18:45:00
这真是完全打到痛点啊 哈哈
作者: ck326 (杰洛米零)   2019-05-22 19:03:00
老实说评论阿雅那段我怀疑这个人到底有没有看过GOT???工三小,阿雅本来就是游侠风格,探险才符合她的人设如果跑去搞政治才莫名其妙现在很多所谓的评论,我很怀疑到底有没有看过每一集 GOT还是只看过最后一集就跟风乱写评论
作者: fire60743 (shawnatptt)   2019-05-22 19:09:00
靠竟然是齐泽克
作者: deutyi (IL)   2019-05-22 20:08:00
艾莉亚的看法实在很不认同,她早就颠覆传统女角很多很多了,为什么一定要把每个角色(尤其是女角)都塞进权力中心才不叫歧视或平权?
作者: orzisme (EM)   2019-05-22 21:05:00
他完全没讲错。D&D真的是厌女。看看他们怎么去扁平冰火里丰富多面的女性角色?甚至还说的出那种恶心的强暴成长论。至于政治方面。我觉得他们只是想讨好美国主流。简单粗暴的呈现。尤其体现在龙妈线。龙妈线其实应该有许多关于政治的讨论。但他们以前只想演开挂。演龙。所有冲突都很简化。再不行就直接用武力碾压。错失了非常多描写她矛盾与统治问题的时候。最后收不了。就乱收了
作者: mysmalllamb (小羊)   2019-05-22 21:36:00
搓汤圆的保守主义政治也不止美国主流,全球好多地方都正流行着~
作者: valeria (Val)   2019-05-22 21:38:00
我只希望D&D从今以后都不要碰任何一个女性角色,每当看到他们经过他们手中糟蹋的女性角色就眼神死
作者: j27910681 (琥珀)   2019-05-22 21:47:00
什么都可以扯到仇女真的很棒,一个看都没看过的云观众做的评论有什么参考价值阿雅从来就不是眷恋权力的人,三莎当上北境之王到底有什么不妥?把龙妈黑化说成仇女更是愚蠢无比,同样火烧平民的疯王是男的所以他没事吗?被编剧扁平化的男性角色多到数不胜数,怎么就没听你们这些伟大哲学家提几嘴?趁著墙倒众人推就要借题发挥,反正随便扣什么帽子都行,真的是有够棒
作者: rugia813 (rugia)   2019-05-22 21:58:00
看到这种啥都要PC的观点真的是翻白眼
作者: mysmalllamb (小羊)   2019-05-22 22:05:00
其实我觉得珊莎被编剧黑化得比较严重,被描绘成一个部落主义的心机者,世故高傲地把理想主义者逼入墙角,等他们被逼疯后再来名正言顺地收割;反而龙妈的黑化还比较有种理想主义者黯然殒落的悲剧感。当然以剧情细节来说两边都有很多硬拗...
作者: orzisme (EM)   2019-05-22 22:19:00
女角被严重扁平化从前面季就有在讲了。他们对女角的分类差不多就是能打的跟搞阴谋的。拍成长不如拍床戏。第五季就爆过一波舆论。并没迟至第八季才发生。
作者: jerry8432 (杰利茅斯)   2019-05-22 22:24:00
他是在说龙女烧平民这转折极不合理 干疯王屁小关系?
作者: orzisme (EM)   2019-05-23 02:07:00
M大我认为北境想独立并非是部落主义。龙妈也不是理想主义者吧。而且她的东方经验在西方还有极大的文化差异。北境独立应该更类似于苏格兰和英的关系。
作者: mysmalllamb (小羊)   2019-05-23 06:05:00
当然北境独立有其文化、民意、历史经验,是珊莎必须努力而观众也都会乐观其成的事。但在这季囧努力打异鬼时,珊莎被描绘到的是完全没在顾及眼前异鬼、而只在意谁称王谁称臣。我不认为珊莎只是这样的人,但这季她都只被赋予这样的戏份... 至于理想主义嘛,那当然只是一个仅限个人脑中的理想啦。
作者: alejandroW (Mr.乔)   2019-05-23 07:37:00
仇女很明显是事实
作者: j27910681 (琥珀)   2019-05-23 08:02:00
安排给某个女角的情结不合理=仇女?第八季琼恩的剧情也不合理阿,小恶魔的剧情也不合理阿,布兰的剧情也不合理啊,詹姆的剧情也不合理阿,怎么就没看到有人说编剧仇男啊?
作者: modert5728 (modert5728)   2019-05-23 09:45:00
给女角强暴戏床戏说是角色成长和剧情,这就是不合理啊你有看到哪个男角被强暴才成长的吗?编剧确实一再地用男性凝视去塑造剧情中的女角不要每次听到女权两字就吓到倒弹好吗?到底是多害怕自己失去在父权社会所获得的地位
作者: Victory2 (Victory2)   2019-05-23 16:39:00
哇,是那个齐泽克耶!
作者: pattda (無聊的人生)   2019-05-24 01:21:00
想说这角度来看这部戏的不足可能要晚点再论 没想到还是有人先发难XD好莱坞不是仇女 是男性至上 经由娱乐将这观念传递出去做幕后也只是跟随以前做的片来看来学 DD主写后就开始一堆旧好莱坞式的故事

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