※ [本文转录自 DirectSales 看板 #1QA1TQtF ]
作者: d200190 (瞌睡熊) 看板: DirectSales
标题: Re: [问题] 如果找不到当初的安丽直销商
时间: Thu Dec 7 00:14:12 2017
来喔，上原文
Dear NSF:
Could you explain how this NSF certified mark should be looked like? Is there
any official regulation for some specific product type? Or a authorized
manufacturer could choose their own mark varying from a simple NSF to a
circled NSF with certified standard? changing color from blue to black? I've
seen marks with these two colors with the same "Independently Certified"
around NSF circle, separated with or without two dots. Did they represent the
same meaning?
I am confused by a salesman form Amway claimed that eSpring water treatment
system is the only system certified for the entire system(standard 42/53/55),
rest of manufacturers certified merely for functioning compartments.
Most importantly, he claimed that by whole system certification, they were
authorized to bear different type of certified mark, which is distinguishable
from other manufacturers.
Is it true or false? if it's true, what does it look like? May I have a
picture?
============================================================================
Hello XXX,
There are certification marks that are used by all manufacturers who are
certified to NSF International standards and certified by NSF International.
There are color restrictions and size recommendations for the certification
marks. The certification mark by itself does not represent different
certification; but rather the list of standards that the product has been
certified against as well as the list of contaminants it will reduce is a way
to differentiate a product’s certification.
In regard to what you stated below, here is our listings page where you can
see which products are certified to which standards:
http://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/
There are various products that have certification to more than one standard
(i.e., 42, 53, and 401). We verify what the manufacturer is claiming their
product will reduce.
If you forward me what the dealer is saying in an email, I can send to our
quality team for their review.
============================================================================
Dear NSF:
Thanks for replying.
Here's his expression: eSpring system is the only product (more precisely,
product line.) being certified for entire machine to standard
43/53/55/401/P477 rather than just functioning component. For example, some
water purifier is certified to standard 53 only for filter part, but not for
the entire machine as eSpring does. Since eSpring is certified for entire
machine, the product line is authorized to bear unique NSF mark differing
from other manufacturers.
To be clear:
1.Is the NSF mark altered in any way between "whole machine" and "single
component" so that I could tell the differences by taking one glance of the
certified mark?
Attached file 1 demonstrates what he called "unique certified mark for entire
machine". I prefer he's bluffing. Is it legit to use TM? or R is preferred?
2. "whole machine" and "single component" Are they really certified and
documented in different ways? Does it really matter if I sent the whole
machine or component for certification?
The salesman's expression sounds like their certification to standard 53 is
way more better than other manufacturers' and documented in a unique way.
I thought NSF testifies the water purifying components in the most realistic
practice-run the whole machine, and testify the contaminants reduction,
material safety and integrity. Am I correct? or NSF only testifies the
component in some way isolated?
3.Just to be sure, in attached file 2, all these certified mark are legit,
right? And they don't represent any standard or what they called "whole
machine certification". The only information is that products with these
marks are certified by NSF, and manufacturers are free to choose any one of
them as label. Am I correct?
===========================================================================
Hi XXX,
There are component certifications that we use to verify the components in
contact with drinking water are safe to use. These fall under standard 42
and/or 61. They would state as such “certified for material and structural
integrity only” whereas the performance of a product is verified as a whole
system is under 42, 53, 401, etc.
The mark is the same with the exception of the box underneath has different
text clarifying the product’s certification.
The certification mark has a ® with it for all marks including the “
independently certified” version.
If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.
Thank you for your message,
============================================================================
推 Sinreigensou: 那不就代表可能有你不知道的技术， 49.217.96.120 12/05 08:58
→ Sinreigensou: 可以用活性碳滤心过滤重金属吗？ 49.217.96.120 12/05 08:58
→ gigi030507 : 那就请你提出证明 36.236.64.215 12/05 08:59
→ gigi030507 : 研究报告等第三方资料 36.236.64.215 12/05 09:00
→ gigi030507 : 不然都给你说就好了 我考试OGC4次 36.236.64.215 12/05 09:00
→ gigi030507 : 还100分勒 36.236.64.215 12/05 09:01
这个齁，NSF列表有写益之源可以滤铅和汞，我觉得这个就可以不用争了。
→ sohuanjin : 全机认证有外面那圈 没有全机认证175.180.240.190 12/05 19:35
→ sohuanjin : 请问一下是不是认证不一样? 是不是175.180.240.190 12/05 19:35
→ sohuanjin : 标志不同? 自己一开始就搞错别人说175.180.240.190 12/05 19:35
→ sohuanjin : 的话还在那边查得很爽外加人身攻击175.180.240.190 12/05 19:36
→ sohuanjin : 补第一句 没有全机认证就没有那圈175.180.240.190 12/05 19:36
好喔，我又写了一封信去啊，而且还帮你翻中文。
Dear NSF:
What does the circle "independently certified " represent? The salesman
insists that the circle around stands for whole system certification.
标志外面那一圈independently certified是什么意思? 直销商坚持那是全机认证
才有的圈。
========================================================================
It is an older certification mark that does not represent a different type of
certification (whole system versus component). The text box underneath should
explain what the certification represents.
那是旧版的认证标志，不代表认证不同(全机vs零部件)，底下的文字方块可以解释代表
哪项认证。
========================================================================
真的hen~棒。
推 kaillan : 我想此为直销板，会因本身对直销. 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 直销商过往经验不佳而引起的吵架无 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 法避免，会说不买直销产品也难免有 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 个人因素。我针对个人的言论探讨， 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 请问原po d大询问NSF官方全机认证 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 的信件内容为何？我转录给台湾安丽 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 公司请他们说明。因为全机认证.零 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 件认证官网上都有说明，且其他品牌 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 也有出现此标榜。排除由直销商误传 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : ，另外若有质疑台湾安丽官方文宣不 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
→ kaillan : 符合美国安丽的项目也可提出。 111.83.182.130 12/06 08:14
我是想说这张图
我们常见到净水器宣称取得NSF认证，但在NSF的认证中，其实分为“全机”与“零件”认
证。 这两者最大的区别，在于获得NSF的“零件”，仅能代表该零件(滤心)所使用的材质
，符合NSF的标准， 但却无法代表该零件安装于机体后的安全性，或者能有效滤除水中的
污染物。仅有获得NSF全机认证的净水器，才能同时符合材料安全、结构完整及有效滤除
三大要件，确保顾客所饮用的水是纯净且安全无虞。
根据NSF官方的信，只要有效能相关的认证，比如说53里面可以滤掉几项，就是整个系统
下去验，所以基本上53就一定是验全机。
NSF的懒人包说明42跟53https://goo.gl/bppGRH
这也跟信件里吻合，如果只验零件的部分是归在42或61底下，但是42也有效能的部分是
验全机。
所以会分全机vs零件的，只有42，但是中文安丽官网不写清楚，会让消费者以为所有NSF
认证都有分全机vs零件。尤其是滤心，会有人拿整个滤水器的心脏只验42零件不验效能的
吗? 真的有的话那这厂商是棒槌啊，所以我又合理假设这段描述是针对那些只要验42零件
就可以拿NSF标志出来骗的不肖厂商。但是消费者不会去研究这些眉角啊，又要被你们铺
天盖地洗全机五项，那不就是营造一种"只有我家验全机好棒棒"的氛围，你要说他违法也
没有阿都是事实啊，只是换个说法让你观感不同啊。这，就是大家最讨厌的直销话术，一
般人不研究一下真的很容易被拐，美国官方网站就没有搞这么多花样，再加一堆直销商的
"个人行为"，更让我觉得在台湾直销会臭真的是活该夕鹤。
啊对了，NSF标志的那个TM可以问一下啦，NSF官方说法是用®。
我战的内容其实跟安丽官方也没什么关系啊，都是在战底下直销商那些莫名其妙的"个人"
说词啊，只是个体户被戳就会气噗噗觉得我在戳安丽官方。这种东西寄给官方有什么用?
难道官方还能把护航大将军赶出安丽?