※ [本文转录自 Monotheism 看板 #1IR1fyFM ]
※ [本文转录自 JesusLove 看板 #1IQOF5dw ]
台湾众教会现在如此包容召会，一起出现在基督教论坛报攻击东方闪电，但是却未曾听见
一直批判基督教是“妓女”（此一说法大量出现于召会各种出版品，包括李常受生命读经
、晨兴圣言、结晶读经、录影训练等等）、是“公会”（去召会聚一次会，就会听到召会
从上到下都这样骂主内肢体，难不成召会以“私会”自居？），至今也未曾改变态度依旧
继续骂主内肢体的这一群人，公开说一声对不起，改口尊重其他教会，真正是骄傲自大、
欺人太甚。我反问一个问题，那些不知道召会与李常受的各种异端说法与实行的正统基督
教界朋友们，一旦知道一切的真相，还愿意不愿意与召会站在一起？
※ 引述《Tiunn (guesswho)》之铭言：
: ※ [本文转录自 Christianity 看板 #1IQIggZ4 ]
: 作者: Tiunn (guesswho) 看板: Christianity
: 标题: “地方召会”被列入ECNR‘新宗教与非正统教派’
: 时间: Thu Oct 24 22:11:47 2013
: “地方召会”被列入ECNR‘新宗教与非正统教派’百科全书之理由
: 福音派基督徒之所以将“地方召会”列入ECNR‘新宗教与非正统教派’百科全书，其理由
: 认为李氏下列几点之教训与正统基督徒信仰出现矛盾之处。特别是在教义上“神性的本质
: ”、“人性的本质”两大部份。笔者补译几个重点供弟兄姊妹参考，好让大家有重新思考
: 的空间。
: On the Nature of God
: 神的本质
: "The Son is called the Father; so the Son must be the Father. We must realize
: this fact. There are some who say that He is called the Father, but He is not
: really the Father. But how could He be called the Father and yet not be the
: Father?... In the place where no man can approach Him (I Tim. 6:16), God is
: the Father. When He comes forth to manifest Himself, He is the Son. So, a Son
: is given, yet His name is called 'The everlasting Father.' This very Son who
: has been given to us is the very Father."
: "子被称为父，那么子必然是父......"
: 出处：包罗万有基督之灵。第四、五页
: Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Spirit of Christ
: (Los Angeles: The Stream Publishers, 1969), pp. 4-5
: "...the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh."
: .....整个神格，是三一神，成为肉身.........
: 出处：神的新约经纶。第230页
: Witness Lee, God's New Testament Economy
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1986), p. 230
: "The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and
: borders on tritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not
: left behind, nor does Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression
: Christianity gives. They think of the Father as one Person, sending the Son,
: another Person, to accomplish redemption, after which the Son sends the
: Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit, in traditional thinking, comes into
: the believers, while the Father and Son are left on the throne. When
: believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name
: of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the
: revelation of the Bible...."
: ..............把神格分为三个位格不是圣经的启示......
: 出处：生命读经。第164页
: Witness Lee, Life Messages
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1979), p. 164
: "THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS ALSO THE SPIRIT.... and the Lord
: Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He
: is also the Father. Hallelujah!"
: ..."子是那父，子也是那灵"........我们的主是那子，也是那父.......
: 出处：关于三一神。第18-19页
: Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1973), pp. 18-19
: "Therefore, it is clear: The Lord Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the
: Spirit, and He is the very God. He is also the Lord. He is the Father, the
: Son, the Spirit, the Mighty God, and the Lord."
: ........主耶稣是父，是子，是那灵........
: 出处：关于三一神的属灵启示。
: Witness Lee, The Clear Scriptural Revelation
: Concerning the Triune God
: www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/triune.html
: "The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three separate persons or three
: Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person."
: ....父，子，灵不是三个身位或三位神，....他们是一个身位......
: 出处：三一神活在人里。第48页
: Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1970), p. 48
: On the Nature of Humanity
: 人性的本质
: "Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we
: are of the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and
: we are the God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are
: the boards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but in
: nature we are exactly the same."
: ....基督有人性和神性.....在本质上我们也是一样.......
: 出处：包罗万有基督。第103页
: Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Christ
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 5th ed. 1989), p. 103
: "God can say to His believers, 'I am divine and human,' and His believers
: can reply, 'Praise You, Lord. You are divine and human, and we are human and
: divine.'"
: 神可对信徒说"我是神也是人".....信徒可回答 "我们是人也是神".....
: 出处：三一神活在人里。第51-52页
: Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), pp. 51-52
: "My burden is to show you clearly that God's economy and plan is to make
: Himself man and to make us, His created beings, 'God,' so that He is
: 'man-ized' and we are 'God-ized.' In the end, He and we, we and He, all
: become God-men.'
: ".....神的经纶和计划是把祂自己做成人，把我们做成祂造的"神"......
: 出处：神圣分赐的更深研究。第54页
: Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), p. 54
: "We the believers are begotten of God. What is begotten of man is man, and
: what is begotten of God must be God. We are born of God; hence, in this
: sense, we are God."
: ........我们 从神生，因此，在此理解，我们是神.
: 出处：Ibid., p. 53
: Ibid., p. 53
: "Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of
: Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the 'four-in-one' God.' These
: four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The Three of the
: Divine Trinity cannot be confused or separated, and the four-in-one also
: cannot be separated or confused."
: ........父、子、灵 都在基督的身体，我们可以说三一神现是四一神，父、子、灵和身
: 体。
: 出处：Ibid., pp. 203-204
: Ibid., pp. 203-204
: On the Legitimacy of Evangelical Churches and Denominations
: 基督教福音教会和各宗派的正统性
: We decry as inconsistent and unjustifiable the attempts by Living Stream and
: the "local churches" to gain membership in associations of evangelical
: churches and ministries while continuing to promote Witness Lee's denigrating
: characterizations of such churches and ministries as follows:
: “地方召会”及“水流职事站”在取得基督教福音教会所属的协会会员资格，却同时继续
: 推展李氏教导贬低这些基督教福音教会和事奉，我们认为此种做法是矛盾和不公义的。
: "The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the
: apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This
: prophecy is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the
: building of the genuine church is being accomplished."
: .....主不是在基督教国建立召会，基督教国是由堕落罗马天主教，和改革各宗派 .....
: 出处：新约恢复本99页
: Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version,
: note 184 (Matthew 16:18)
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 99
: http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=639
: "The apostate church has deviated from the Lord's word and become heretical.
: The reformed church, though recovered to the Lord's word to some extent, has
: denied the Lord's name by denominating herself, taking many other names, such
: as Lutherans, Wesleyan, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc. ... To deviate
: from the Lord's word is apostasy, and to denominate the church by taking any
: name other than the Lord's is spiritual fornication."
: ......使用宗派否认主的名如信义会、卫思理会、长老会、浸信会.......
: 出处：新约恢复本1256页
: Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version,
: note 83 (Revelation 3:8)
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 1256
: http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=8759
: "I am afraid that a number of us are still under the negative influence of
: Christendom. We all have to realize that today the Lord is going on and on to
: fully recover us and bring us fully out of Christendom."
: ".....今天主要完成恢复我们带我们完全离开基督教国 ........
: 出处： 教会历史与地方召会。132页
: Witness Lee, The History of the Church and the Local Churches
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 132
: "In every denomination, including the Roman Catholic Church, there are real,
: saved Christians. They are God's people belonging to the Lord. But the
: organization of the denominations in which they are is not of God. The
: denominational organizations have been utilized by Satan to set up his
: satanic system to destroy God's economy of the proper church life."
: ..........基督教宗派组织是被撒旦利用建立撒旦系统破坏神的经纶........
: 出处：创世纪生命读经464页
: Witness Lee, "Message Thirty-Four" in The Life-Study of Genesis
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1987), Vol. 1, p. 464
: "We do not care for Christianity, we do not care for Christendom, we do not
: care for the Roman Catholic church, and we do not care for all the
: denominations, because in the Bible it says that the great Babylon is fallen.
: This is a declaration. Christianity is fallen, Christendom is fallen,
: Catholicism is fallen, and all the denominations are fallen. Hallelujah!"
: ...........这是个宣告基督教堕落...所有基督教宗派是堕落 .....
: 出处： 地方召会的七灵97页
: Witness Lee, The Seven Spirits for the Local Churches
: (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1989), p. 97
: "To know God is not adequate. To know Christ is also not adequate. Even to
: know the church is not adequate. We must go on to know the churches which are
: local. If we are up-to-date in following the Lord, we will realize that today
: is the day of the local churches."
: .......我们将会了解现今是地方召会的日子.
: 出处：Ibid., p. 23
: Ibid., p. 23
: We respectfully call on the leadership of Living Stream Ministry and the
: "local churches" to disavow and cease to publish these and similar
: declarations.
: 我们尊敬的呼吁“地方召会”及“水流职事站”领导，收回和停止出版这些和类似的教导
: 。
: http://blog.haleluya.com.tw/wataru/archives/6852.html
→ drea:上面那一篇不是就回答你了吗?? “但当我开始接触福音派时，却 10/25 19:58
→ drea:不时会听到召会或灵恩派接近(或根本就是)异端的说法] 10/25 19:59
→ drea:但在接解召会or灵恩派时“他们不会指对方是异端或有严重的 10/25 20:00
→ drea:违背基要真理的问题，]
以下若有任何一字谎言，愿主删除我生命册上的名，永世时下火湖。李常受位在圣灵之后
，居第四位，1986年于台北市召会也有一模一样的说法，连讲员都是与美国德州场同一人
：韩德璞( Paul Hon )，台北市召会场我本人在现场，同年台北市召会呼求李常受特会，
Howard Higashi和余洁麟主持，我本人也在现场，我没有呼求李常受的名，此场聚会一般
认定是中国大陆“呼喊派－呼求常受主，呼求常受神”的起点，虽然召会声称李常受曾去
信中国大陆阻止，但召会从未对美国德州场与台北市召会两场做任何解释，至少两场异端
聚会都在台北市召会第三聚会所二楼大会场举行，两场都满场，各约数百人、也许接近千
人的特会。余洁麟来到香港时，由香港教会长老温继有向余洁麟面询，如此呼求李常受的
名是何用意？余洁麟承认曾有此事。drea，你那时后应该是在吸奶，甚至还没有投胎。
→ drea:若你说有‘呼求李得生命特会’，我是没听过啦，但真若有的话 08/01 08:09
→ drea:那的确是异端，、、、 08/01 08:10
drea，你现在怎么噤声龟缩了？敢快拿出良心勇敢斥责并弃绝召会聚会所李常受异端，否
则你就是爱异端不爱真 神。本事件始末请参考“香港教会全体长老同工就当今工作局面
的一些声明”超连结如下：
http://1974748.blogspot.tw/2010/08/blog-post_22.html
→ drea:从我进召会至今从没听过‘呼求李得生命’这说法 10/25 21:42
→ drea:召会也没这样教我过，一样，若我说谎就永世时下火湖 10/25 21:44
drea，你算是有一点勇气，Good，你应该是个年轻人，未曾亲身经历过召会那些荒唐的年
代。但是前述都是已经发生过的事实，建议你拿出良心与勇气，亲自向那几位所谓的同工
求证，然后以正直的灵，大声斥责这一些妄人妄言妄行妄事，并且斥责并弃绝至今没有对
这些已经发生过的事实做出任何解释与悔改的错谬异端系统。
推 springxx:没想到因为倪李的特立独行害了不少人 10/25 21:24
→ springxx:召会 我最早待的教会 召会不是异端 10/25 21:25
→ springxx:李常受弟兄也不是异端 只不过 怪就怪在李弟兄有大头症 10/25 21:26
→ springxx:倪我就不好说 毕竟不太了解 10/25 21:27
→ springxx:他们就是太自傲 10/25 21:28
→ springxx:一些作法有异端的影子 才会一直跟异端扯上边 10/25 21:30
→ springxx:本身不是坏人 10/25 21:30
→ fisherke:许多教会有同样的问题，教导问题不大，但组织运作有问题 10/25 22:27
→ fisherke:牧者用威权式的领导来带羊，不允许有其他声音，算异端吗? 10/25 22:28
正统基督信仰 vs. 召会聚会所：
三一 神，三位一体 vs. 四一神，四位一体
神格里父居首位 vs. 神格里子居首位
父、子、圣灵区别而不分开 vs. 父就是子，子就是那灵
圣子道成肉身 vs. 圣父、圣子、圣灵一起道成肉身
基督是非受造 vs. 基督是受造物
独一一位基督 vs. 团体的基督
神的儿女 vs. 人成为神
朋友，你还能说召会不是异端吗？
李常受错误的神论