Re: [讨论] 打者跑一垒用扑的到底有什么效果

楼主: Skyblueway (Sky)   2022-10-30 22:44:17
发现在2017年MLB有这一篇文章
分析用的球员是Brett Gardner
作者找了Gardner 在2017赛季的五个最快的play做分析
想看影片请点连结
1.
Apr. 21, 2017 (No slide 没扑)
30.2 feet per second, 3.67 seconds home-to-first
Gardner 想靠触击上一垒,该赛季跑最快的一次
2.
Aug. 17, 2017 (No slide 没扑)
30.3 feet per second, 3.94 seconds home-to-first
非触击状态,该赛季第二快(最快的那次因防守不足,所以不拿那次来比 inefficient def
ense made that one less than competitive)
3.
Aug. 28, 2017 (Slide 扑)
30.5 feet per second, 4.09 seconds home-to-first
Unlike the two full-run plays, there's now a noticable speed dip at the end of t
he play diagram, making it clear when the slide began. When he stopped running,
he stopped maintaining his speed.
不同于前两次全力冲刺,在这次冲刺的最后,开始扑后的速度明显下降。当他停止跑步,就
停止维持一样的速度。
4.
Aug. 2, 2017 (Slide 扑)
30.6 feet per second, 4.09 seconds home-to-first
Again, the speed decline is clear.
一样,速度明显变慢
5.
Sept 22, 2016 (Slide)
30.7 feet per second, 4.11 seconds home-to-first
The speed decline upon diving is clear, and Gardner was out.
在扑时的降速很明显,且Gardner 出局。
While five plays isn't exactly a huge sample size, these are the three fastest h
ome-to-first times on diving plays he's put up in the past year, so this isn't a
case of choosing only favorable plays. We have two of Gardner's fastest overall
times, and his three fastest sliding times.
这五个样本数虽然不多,但是两个是全力时的前两快跟三个扑下去的前三快。
Let's combine them all to show what these look like all at once. The speed Gardn
er shows for most of the play is nearly identical, and then at the end, there's
a clear speed drop when he dives. It's hard to dispute.
把这五个摆在一起看,Gardner 在冲刺时的速度几乎一样,然后在最后,当他扑的时后,速
度就降了。
If we're talking about simple running speed, that's basically true; it's difficu
lt to accelerate without your feet. As you can see in the diagrams, Gardner's sp
eed while sliding is dropping from slightly over 30 feet per second to more like
21 feet per second, and dropping rapidly as he gains friction.
如果单纯看冲刺速度,当然扑下去变慢是正常的,没有脚怎么加速。如你能从影片中看到,
Gardner 的速度从高于每秒30呎在扑下去后降到每秒21呎,因摩擦力快速下降。
But as we said, the argument to the contrary is that if done properly, the abili
ty to reach out with your hands can make up for that, and Gardner has been used
as an example in other studies of someone good at doing just that.
但是争议的点是,如果能够好好利用手的延伸,可以弥补两者之间的速差。而Gardner 是很
好的范本。
the first 80 feet or so ought to be identical no matter whether you slide or not
. Would we find a difference if we look at the final 10 feet for these selected
plays? If sliding is faster, that's where it would present itself.
不管扑不扑,前80呎的速度应该是一样的。假如我们看这五个play最后的10呎会找到差异吗
?如果扑会比较快,那就是在这段会发现。
The answer is … inconclusive, perhaps. Looking at our five plays, Gardner got t
o the 80-feet mark in as little as 3.29 seconds and as high as 3.76 seconds. Ove
r the last 10 feet, he got there in .34 and .35 seconds running, and .36, .36 an
d .37 seconds sliding.
答案是...不确定。Gardner 到达80呎的时间,最少3.29秒,最多3.76秒。最后的10呎,他
花的时间是全力跑0.34跟0.35,扑的话是0.36, 0.36, 0.37秒。
If we repeat it using 85 feet rather than 80 feet, it's about the same. Over the
last five feet, Gardner needed .18 and .18 running, and .18, .19 and .20 second
s sliding. It's not much of a difference. Or put another way, if he ran the fina
l 10 feet at 30 feet per second, he'd need an estimated .33 seconds, which is wh
at he showed in our pair of "running through" plays. If Gardner slid the final s
even feet at 21 feet per second (seven, rather than 10, assuming he can reach ou
t with his arms for the final three), that would be ... an identical .33 seconds
.
如果我们看85呎的话,会发现结果是一样的。最后的5呎,Gardner 花的时间是全力跑0.18
跟0.18秒,扑则是0.18, 0.19, 0.20秒。换种方式来看,如果最后10呎他以每秒30呎的速度
全力跑,那他需大概0.33秒,就如同我们在全力跑的两个case。如果Gardner 最后7呎用每
秒21呎的速度扑(7呎,因假设最后他的手延伸3呎),那么需要的时间也是0.33秒。
最后作者有提到扑会有个问题就是容易受伤
看这篇有数字分析,想说给大家参考
有错请见谅
https://www.mlb.com/news/statcast-looks-at-running-vs-slide-into-first-c25142015
8
※ 引述 《suzhou (☂☁☁☁☂)》 之铭言:
:  
:  
: 记得不是有人实验过
: 跑一垒正常冲刺的速度
: 会比用扑的速度更快
: 但为何仍然有不少选手打完往一垒跑要用扑的?
: 不知是否还有人持续做更仔细的相关实验分析?
:  
:  
作者: a26480924 (a2222)   2022-10-30 22:49:00
所以还是有噗有交代 热血好看
作者: Timekeeper (Yanks)   2022-10-30 22:49:00
推用心翻译
作者: Iversonchi (Farewell。)   2022-10-30 22:50:00
科学分析给推!
作者: vovhsin (vovhsin)   2022-10-30 22:56:00
作者: kenkenken31 (呆呆傻蛋)   2022-10-30 23:00:00
推个
作者: alittleghost (littleghost)   2022-10-30 23:11:00
所以就是情勒,反正交代一下比较不会被骂
作者: playball (..)   2022-10-30 23:11:00
手长的话扑就可能比较快
作者: gts123 (GT)   2022-10-30 23:12:00
不过用扑的也没想像中慢啊 重点是多了受伤的风险不值得吧
作者: peja0511   2022-10-30 23:16:00
我记得流言终结者有做过一集讨论,结果就是扑的没比较快
作者: Hecarim (最爱XJ9)   2022-10-30 23:22:00
没必要
作者: linahou (linahou)   2022-10-30 23:24:00
作者: mystage (亭)   2022-10-30 23:26:00
作者: condition0 (康迪迅零)   2022-10-31 00:00:00
比较容易受伤贞的没必要
作者: jeangodard   2022-10-31 00:00:00
用心推 今天明显在扑垒时降速了
作者: gts123 (GT)   2022-10-31 00:05:00
不过想了一下 或许有一点可以解释为何打者想扑垒
作者: ygjhsu (杰)   2022-10-31 00:06:00
阿土伯可以不用扑了
作者: gts123 (GT)   2022-10-31 00:06:00
或许打者自身脚步乱掉或步距不对必须大跨步踩垒
作者: gts123 (GT)   2022-10-31 00:07:00
那扑垒就是个弥补的方式了
作者: jeangodard   2022-10-31 00:11:00
楼上二位的推文也是接的很顺欸
作者: ypw (橙黄橘绿秋心不已)   2022-10-31 00:45:00
也觉得考虑步距相当关键,毕竟棒球直接冲刺最后一步要确实踏在垒包上,不是像田径赛那样过线就算。最后一个出局数的压力,可能因为步伐乱掉而最后减速,适当距离扑下去就没这顾虑。
作者: Yjizz (饶惹偶ㄚ激湿)   2022-10-31 01:10:00
这好像之前板上也有人分析过
作者: sincere77 (台湾会更好)   2022-10-31 01:32:00
早就实证过了,用扑的就算手完全往前伸直也不会比较快一堆人只讲自己的理论都没看过找球员来跑的录影实证用扑的导致的降速>>>>>手伸长的优势+用跑的最后一步因为必须踏垒造成的步伐差异,结论是你想要比较快上一垒就不能也不应该扑垒扑垒和滑垒只有在躲触杀或是避免离开垒包时才有意义而打者跑向一垒一般来说不用担心触杀或是离垒
作者: sharkimage (生日那天的甜蜜 ~知道效m)   2022-10-31 02:27:00
作者: goolgo (哇)   2022-10-31 04:28:00
所以这篇的结论看起来比较像扑的好是跟直接冲差不多快扣掉短打的前四快有三个是扑垒,这边要考量是不是他只要想全力冲就是用扑垒还是他只是尔偶扑垒结果就前四快
作者: clusis (不能输在志气!!)   2022-10-31 05:16:00
所以扑的速度比较慢
作者: Nobita (野比太)   2022-10-31 05:23:00
全力跑还要考量脚步是否刚好踩垒 若刚好脚步没法踩垒就又是另一种降速
作者: Ronniecf (瞎)   2022-10-31 05:44:00
Goo大 文章是另外拿扑垒的前三快 不是所有跑一垒前五名扑垒占三个
作者: ChrisPaul03   2022-10-31 07:58:00
用扑的只能赌对方一垒手接球时脚离垒要改用触杀但触不到
作者: lisyu (游小虾)   2022-10-31 08:05:00
扑要比较快 大概只有扑下去利用手长直接摸垒 不能在地上磨在地上滑就等于放开油门踩煞车 要怎么快
作者: AAaaron (....)   2022-10-31 08:12:00
如果扑垒但是没在地上滑,低空扑过去触垒呢?会变慢吗?
作者: k33536 (是什么?)   2022-10-31 08:51:00
还有就是打者本身的脚程 如果脚程就慢的 PU下去可能会快点
作者: THKLuga (流河涛)   2022-10-31 10:19:00
实况野球玩太多,游戏里面甲子园就算十步前出局一垒手都走了还是会扑下去
作者: raysilence (雨....何时会停)   2022-10-31 11:06:00
之前看到的也是说会差不多,不过一般来说跑的快一点,因为不是人人扑垒技术都可以达到完美
作者: ia220629 (ping)   2022-10-31 11:30:00
用跑的一定比较快 跑一跑扑下去还要转移重心的时间 不然田径就会都用扑的了
作者: ericinttu   2022-10-31 11:52:00
所以根本没必要扑
作者: ypw (橙黄橘绿秋心不已)   2022-10-31 12:07:00
田径赛跑最后不用踏垒,只要身体任一处穿过终点线就好。不能混为一谈吧?棒球冲刺最后没踏到一垒就GG了。

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